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Episode 21
The True Meaning of Pet Sematary | Grief, Death & Psychological Horror
May 26, 20261:00:26
About This Episode
Have you ever wondered what book scares people the most?
Tonight on Book Slayers, we descend into the terrifying world of Pet Sematary — one of Stephen King’s darkest and most emotionally devastating novels. We break down the biggest differences between the book and the movie adaptations, explore the themes of grief, death, trauma, and denial, and discuss why this story still haunts readers decades later.
From Zelda’s nightmare fuel to Louis Creed’s psychological collapse, this is a deep dive into the horror the movies only scratched the surface of.
What happens when grief becomes more powerful than death itself?
In this episode of Book Slayers, we do a full deep dive into Pet Sematary and compare it to both film adaptations, including Pet Sematary and Pet Sematary.
We discuss:
- The MAJOR differences between the book and movies
- Why the novel is far more psychologically disturbing
- The true meaning behind the burial ground
- Louis Creed’s descent into madness
- Zelda and childhood trauma
- Pascow, Jud Crandall, and fate
- Why grief is the REAL monster
- Which adaptation captured the horror best
If you love horror books, Stephen King analysis, dark storytelling, psychological horror, and book-to-film comparisons, this episode is for you.
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Betty (00:02.042)
What if grief could make you do the unthinkable? Because this isn't a haunted house story. It's a grief story wearing a horror mask. Okay readers, let's slay this book. Bonny (00:15.66)
Welcome back to Book Slayers, where we put fictional. What? Fuck sake. I did the same thing when I recorded with JC, okay. Betty (00:20.348)
We have to go to the next place. Bonny (00:28.076)
Welcome to Book Slayers, where we put dark fiction books on trial and break down whether they committed crimes against their readers or if they get a full acquittal. We are finishing up our horror era. Tonight, we're diving into one of the darkest and most emotionally brutal horror novels ever written. On the surface is a story about grief, death, and a burial ground that can bring things back to life, but not the way you would hope. Underneath all the supernatural horror, this book is really about what happened when people refused to let go. We're talking dead cats. No, we're not. Wait. Betty (01:08.604)
Beep. I missed it. You know what, if you'd carried on I wouldn't have even picked that up. And I was following along reading. Bonny (01:12.91)
Like, say it! Bonny (01:22.808)
Good talk bud. Okay, hang on. Betty (01:24.348)
you
Bonny (01:26.146)
We're talking undead cats, childhood trauma, terrible decisions made in grief, and why sometimes dead really is better. Yeah, this book. Betty (01:40.358)
This book, my God. I didn't quite know what to expect. I knew obviously it's horror. I think Stephen King himself says this is like the worst horror he's ever written. Not worse as him, but like the most scary, like for him. I'm sure they were saying he read where he's like left it a drawer for years, cause he just didn't think that anyone should read it. And as it started and like the first 50%, I was invested. Bonny (01:53.091)
Yeah. Bonny (02:02.295)
Yeah. Betty (02:08.944)
But there was parts that I felt like I was like, come on, get to the bit. I just think it's a slow build, but it's meant to be that way. It's like once you get to the end, I think you appreciate the slow build. But there was points I was like, I know what's gonna happen, just fucking get on with it. But the ending, which we'll come onto, my God. I just didn't see, I didn't see it coming. it
Bonny (02:18.018)
Yeah. Bonny (02:26.914)
Yeah. Bonny (02:34.818)
No, no, no, no, no, no. For those of you who have not read Pet Sematary, it's basically about Lewis Creed. He moves his family to rural Maine, where they meet their neighbor Judd, and they find that there's a pet cemetery on their property, an ancient burial ground beyond that, and a force that brings things back from the dead, but not right. And the whole basis of this book is how far would you go to undo your loss? And for me, it was terrifying. It was absolutely terrifying. Betty (03:11.342)
It's a definite mind fuck, especially as a parent. But I think anyone who's even not a parent can see how like devastating and like traumatic it actually all is. And I really wasn't ready for it. But you've read this book a few times, haven't you? Bonny (03:25.665)
No. Yeah, this is probably my third go through. I've read it twice before, but it's funny because me and Mike were talking about it and there were things that I hadn't remembered that he had and there were things that he had forgotten that I had remembered. So the book, think, hits people on a very different level and it was really strange. Now I did a mix of audio and reading and I found the audio book to be
Betty (03:42.716)
Hmm. Bonny (03:56.332)
terrifying. If you know who Michael C Hall is, he plays Dexter on TV. Betty (04:02.172)
Mm. Bonny (04:03.15)
So he narrates the. Yeah, he is CHILLING! It was CHILLING! Betty (04:07.141)
I like that. I didn't all know it. didn't just read all of it. Bonny (04:14.156)
Yeah, I did a blend of both. wanted to see just how good the audio was because I've never done that before. Can't go wrong with either format. Betty (04:24.092)
So how old was you when you first read the book? Bonny (04:27.372)
Okay, so I started reading Stephen King. Adrian, funnily enough, bought me the green mile when I was 15, so that's where it started. I think I read Pentz Cemetery, I was 19 the first time. Betty (04:38.086)
okay. I wondered if you, because when I've sort of looked back at reviews or what people have written, some people have said they read it when they was like early teenage years and then read it older and found it scary both times, but actually worse being an adult, I think. Yeah. Bonny (04:51.99)
I said, yeah, it was. Yeah. I'm not even joking. No, it was, it was terrifying and it was terrifying in new and different ways because when I was 19, I wasn't a mum. So for me, the only scary stuff was what was going on with the, the windigo and the, the, yeah, the creature and it was talking and I'm like, my God, why have you not run away yet? Are you crazy lady? Crazy? Go! But yeah. Betty (05:03.115)
Mm-hmm. Betty (05:15.781)
Hahaha
Bonny (05:20.142)
It was, and this time around it was even worse. Cause I'm looking at my kids and I'm like, I guess my core question is, would you, if you know you've got a cemetery that does these things where it brings people back to life and even though you know it's not right, would you do it with your child? Yeah. I like, don't care how freaky you come back. Betty (05:35.152)
Yeah. I really, I would. The love you have for your kids. I just think you would do anything. Like we say we would do anything for our kids and I would do that. Which is, like you say, terrifying. Bonny (05:50.004)
Yeah, but that I
Bonny (05:55.822)
Because you don't know how they're coming back. Like that cat. I'm sorry, but that cat weren't right. I, it's funny because my mom, if you remember, she had puss puss, right? She had that cat. And I swear to God, that cat knew I'd read this book and was just like, would stare at me. And I'm like, away. And you know what? Ever since, and I, I'm still not a fan of cats and I don't know. Betty (06:01.18)
I'm dying. Betty (06:15.011)
Stop looking at
Betty (06:19.516)
Yeah, I'm glad I didn't have any pets while I was reading. Bonny (06:26.07)
If that's why. Betty (06:27.75)
that put you off? Yeah, because we all, both our families had cats when we were younger and I don't remember you not liking cats, to be honest. Yeah, you always preferred dogs, but you didn't, I don't remember you not liking cats. So maybe this book did affect you more than what you think. Bonny (06:34.592)
I always, like, I always preferred dogs. Bonny (06:43.96)
That's why. And it's funny because I didn't know that until I realized that. So I'm like, ever since Puss Puss looked at me that day after I read the book and I'm like, that cat's going to eat me. And I think that was kind of it. And I don't think it was that Puss Puss was just a bitch, but. Betty (07:00.506)
Yeah. Yeah. Bonny (07:01.976)
But it made me, this whole book was, I think that King was trying to show that even though he had supernatural elements in this book, that the biggest monster that I saw in it was grief and what it can do to you and what it can do to a family. I'm not being funny, but I was so mad at the parents for the way they were, like they had another child. They had another child. And it was almost like that child no longer existed in their sphere. Betty (07:17.168)
Yeah, definitely. Bonny (07:31.458)
because all they could see was their grief. Betty (07:35.421)
Yeah, and I'm not even going to do the whole put myself in that situation. But I think with the book, you got to remember it was like what less than four days or it was like four days when he when he did what he did with the with the child. So I think you might need to give a little bit of for that. But then I suppose you've got to always remember you're a parent, you're there for the kid. They've also just lost their brother and is too young to understand why and what happened and why is that fair? And do you know what I mean? Yeah. So I
Bonny (07:47.341)
Yeah. Bonny (07:55.938)
Yeah. Bonny (08:01.155)
Yeah. Betty (08:01.948)
sort of see both sides because I would be besides myself. would just, yeah, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole for how I would feel. No, let's not do that. Bonny (08:08.832)
No, let's not do that. But did you not also notice that like, Lewis is a doctor, he's a very logical man, and even he, knowing it was wrong, did it anyway? Betty (08:24.272)
Yeah, and he almost... Bonny (08:28.94)
rationalized it. Betty (08:29.2)
There's, yeah, I was going to say something that's going to ruin the end of the book, but yeah, he rationalized it. And then when other things happen, he rationalizes again that he hasn't done things quick enough and it will turn out better again. And like, yeah, I don't, yeah. But also there is the question of Judd, who, by the way, when I started reading this book, I kept reading it as Jude, which was, which made me laugh because then I couldn't not say Jude. Bonny (08:54.924)
Not, it's like, it's
Betty (08:59.78)
Yeah, so there's the question of obviously he introduces Lewis to this burial grounds and he almost kind of makes him bury the cat there. He doesn't ask for this. He doesn't speak to Lewis about it. He just like makes him follow him to bury this cat there. Burying him onto what he knows, why did he do that? Bonny (09:19.672)
But did you not, they do explain that. Like, I don't know if you missed it, but they do explain this. The entity, that windigo, is forcing him to do it because what's her name? The wife's trying to get home. That entity, that force is making it harder and harder to get home in time to stop it. Like the car, he's like, I don't know why this battery cable did that because this is a brand new car. That's weird. And I was like, and then she's really tired. She's going to fall asleep driving. And John's like, have to pull over. Betty (09:27.228)
Mmm. Betty (09:37.115)
Yeah. Bonny (09:48.706)
Judd realizes that he was manipulated into doing these things because it was time. was scary. Could you imagine being that, knowing you're being manipulated, but being able to do nothing about it? Betty (09:52.537)
Yeah. Betty (10:01.466)
Yeah, because isn't there a bit, I don't know if this was the film or the books, we've both done the film, well I've done one of the films, you've watched both of them previously. I can't remember if it's the film or the book where he's waiting for Lewis to come back and he's trying not to fall asleep and he can feel himself falling asleep and he's sort of telling himself, I know it's making me do this and I can't keep myself awake. Yeah, so I did see that, but yeah. Bonny (10:02.306)
Blah. Bonny (10:07.534)
I'll talk to you guys. Bonny (10:16.024)
Mm. Bonny (10:21.622)
Yeah. You can't keep yourself. Betty (10:27.578)
Yeah, it's fucking freaky and it like forces out of your control and making you do shit and making you pass on these things. This thing through the town so that everybody but like is the window go? Is that supposed to be like one thing? Is it like one entity that can control multiple people? Like because different people, this happens to different people or animals, but I don't know if that's always at different times or whether it can do however many it wants. Do get what I mean? Bonny (10:55.534)
I got the feeling it could do one person at a time. It didn't feel like it could spread itself out like that, but like Judd explains in there, there's certain points where it gets more powerful. So who the frick knows? It was terrifying. was... Go on. No, it's not gone. Betty (11:14.332)
How did you find book to movie comparison? Either of the movies, but I'm quite interested in the original because I watched the newer one, which tells the story differently. Bonny (11:30.765)
Well... Yeah, well, I actually really enjoyed... dog's getting on my lap. I enjoyed the original more. Now, I don't know if you noticed, but in the remake, they kill a different kid, right? They kill Ellie instead. And I didn't like that. Now, I understand why they did that, because the idea of killing a toddler on TV was probably not really going to translate well onto screen. But it was a big difference that I really bloody didn't like. Betty (11:39.867)
Yeah. Betty (11:45.424)
Yes. Bonny (12:03.406)
Also, the movie moves further away from the supernatural aspects, I found, and it concentrated more on the deterioration of the family and their mental health and the guilt. There was a lot of guilt in there. And for some reason, they added in Zelda a lot more, and I didn't understand that either. Like, she's a flip on a radar in the book. Why the fuck is she in the movie? Betty (12:22.394)
Yeah, I think that was probably more for like the horror aspect because it was a bit more group, a bit more graphic. I didn't mind the change of kids, even though as I was watching the film last night with Lacey the whole time, all the way through I was going, that didn't happen in the book, that didn't happen in the book, that was different in the book. And she was like, are you going to do this the whole time? And I was like, yep. I kind of understood the change, but I thought it might have been more... Bonny (12:27.618)
Yeah
Betty (12:50.694)
From an acting point of view, it'd be hard to get a two-year-old to do all the things that you'd want to get a two-year-old to do. But that's why I was interested in the first movie. Like, how did they do that with Gage coming back and... you get what I mean? Like, did that, I it happened in the first film, so how did they do that? Bonny (12:57.357)
Yeah. Bonny (13:08.61)
Yeah. Some of these kids are really well-trained. Look at Drew Barrymore, for example. She was three years old when she was in ET. She was incredible. How the hell did they get her to do stuff? Yeah, she was just, she was three years old when she started out. Yeah. Betty (13:17.212)
my god
Oh, so yeah, so actually think about it. They could have got like an older kid that was just a bit short. Yeah. Well, yeah, that was what my explanation was. But yeah, I did at first I didn't like it. But then I thought she was actually quite creepy, that kid when she took she was all like sweet. And then when she turned creepy, I was like, Oh, oh, yeah, you are. Oh, I get it. Bonny (13:25.784)
Then just said they were, yeah, that's what they normally do. Bonny (13:40.662)
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, the actors did a really good job. I don't know if you noticed, like, the dude that plays Judd was, like, ominous and a little terrifying. Did you get that feeling? Betty (13:54.351)
Only at the beginning where he approaches a young girl who's on her own. And then the mum comes and the mum's like, yeah, hi, it's my daughter. Do you know what mean? Like she didn't know that was, he didn't know that was his neighbor unless he did know, I don't know. But I didn't get, I think it was supposed to seem a bit creepy, but no, through it I didn't get a creepy vibe. Bonny (14:18.03)
Stop it! Get out of there! Sorry. Betty (14:20.444)
All your lights went flashing then as well as all the wind. Bonny (14:24.302)
Because the dog's under my chair, that's where it's plugged in. Gah! No, what I mean is like, I know, was like, see, look, the window goes here. We could just stop talking about this. No, I mean, I guess because you didn't see the original movie and like in the book, Judd is like almost like a grandfatherly figure. Like he's very sweet, they become really good friends. Now, in this movie, he comes across as a little bit of a fucking crazed lunatic. Betty (14:27.744)
doing special effects. Yeah. Betty (14:44.763)
Yes. Bonny (14:52.994)
He's very like unsettling. don't know. Maybe it was just me. I was like. Betty (14:57.092)
Yeah, I didn't get that. Although he wasn't exactly what I pictured in the book. But I think just visually, I don't know if I also think there was a lot more in the book about Judd and Louis's Do you know? So I think that you got more of that grandfather vibe from the book because you saw how much time they spent together. I don't really know that you got that from that movie. Bonny (15:01.472)
Yeah. Bonny (15:23.104)
Yeah, that's true. You know what? Yeah, that is very true. I agree with you there. It was a really well done movie. Like the actors were brilliant. The cinematic experience was phenomenal. I don't know. It was just, I don't know. I felt like it didn't take the book where it was like that creep up horror. And I felt like they kind of went for the shock moments instead in the remake. Betty (15:49.83)
So do you feel like the first movie, because I think Stephen King was involved in that first movie, am I right? Yeah. Bonny (15:56.396)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was a producer on this one as well. Betty (16:01.392)
I don't, was he? I didn't know that he was. okay. I was going to say like, was the other one, I haven't read that he was, but maybe. I don't know if, I didn't know if like, it was more to the tone of what the actual book was, the first movie, which I would like to see how it compares to the book because he was more involved. I didn't know it was involved in the second one, but yeah. Bonny (16:04.352)
I think he has to be. Bonny (16:23.47)
I can't actually say that. I know from experience that when they do TV shows and movies of his work, he always gets producer credits. I'm fairly certain that's in his contract. Betty (16:39.26)
Google him. I need to know. The remake of Pet Sematary. It's funny, when I spoke to Lacey or maybe Cara about it and they was like, is that how they spell cemetery in America? And I was like, no. It's just cause kids know it. It's not deep. Stephen King was not directly involved in the production of the 2019 Pet Sematary. While he did not write the script or serve as an executive producer, he did give the filmmakers his blessing. Bonny (16:40.398)
Yeah, of course you are. Bonny (16:54.094)
Because a kid wrote it. A kid did it. Betty (17:08.474)
and publicly praised the film. And I think that he was okay with the change of characters in it as well, because I think he saw where they was going and why they wanted to change it. So I think he, blessing, but he wasn't involved in the making of it. Bonny (17:17.666)
Yeah. Yeah. Bonny (17:22.638)
Okay, that makes sense. So, now that we finished with the movie, unless you got more to say. Betty (17:30.199)
No, no, nothing else in the movie. Bonny (17:33.47)
I guess the biggest thing for me, even just like switching from the movie back to the book, is that the book didn't, the paranormal stuff happened at the end. It was very, it was a very small portion of what really happened. It was mostly about the grief and what grief can do to you and the lengths you'll go to as a person to fight the inevitable because you can't bring people back from the dead. I don't care what you say, you can't. But it wasn't, I guess for me, like you could see that Lewis was fighting with
Do I do this? Do I not do this? Because he was fighting with the acceptance of it. And he was like, well, if I could lose him or I could do this, if he comes back and he can't do this anymore, that's okay. And I thought it was really clever how they went back to when they thought he was going to have a diagnosis for, God, what was that? They thought that he had with the big head and they thought because there was a good chance that he was going to be disabled. And he was like, well, we wouldn't have got rid of him then. And I'm like, that's not the same thing, buddy. Betty (18:22.096)
I remember. Yeah. Bonny (18:32.61)
You bring it back a fucking zombie. That's not the same thing. A disabled child and you're likening it to a fucking zombie? Betty (18:40.014)
I know, I guess the hope's there though, I suppose when the cat come back, church, he could tell he was different, a little bit more aggressive, and he could tell there was something different about him, but I guess because the cat can't speak or verbalise or I don't know, there's only so much that he could tell, maybe the hope was so much more that, but maybe he'll be mostly okay? That's, it must be where you're going, but like we said, I'd do it anyway. Bonny (19:05.91)
You know what? I, I, it's a, it's a hard one. Okay. Because I understand as somebody who reads a lot of horror that these things never go well. And what if you bring this one kid back, okay. And it turns into this crazed lunatic and eats all your other kids. Betty (19:16.54)
you
Betty (19:24.589)
yeah, I haven't considered my other child. Bonny (19:26.944)
No, you're like bringing this creature, this and they get violent, like the cat is obviously a little unhinged. What are you really doing? What are you doing? And even like the truck driver, right? Like it was, he suddenly as he got to town wanted to speed really badly. Like again, that was because that creature wanted somebody dead. Look, you're driving me insane dog, okay? I'm going to my shit now. Betty (19:44.902)
Yeah. Betty (19:52.316)
Can I just say now that you've had a break, I've just screen-shotted, because if you look on the side, my name's Betty and your name's Binnie. Bonny (19:58.698)
I know I was already laughing about that. said it, I took a thing to Mike and I'm like, are you laughing to warm up? I'm like, no, wrote Binnie. Betty (20:03.644)
You
Betty (20:10.736)
Betty and Benny. Bonny (20:13.089)
He's like, yeah, you need somebody to quality control you. like, I've been saying this for months. Yeah, but yeah, I did notice that. my God, she moved my notes. Go away. Cute anymore. Betty (20:27.034)
Right, back, I've got a question about, there was a lot of phrases that were repeated in the book. So we've got like, sometimes dead is better. There's the whole one where it starts like, the soil of a man's heart is stone. I had to like Google some of this because I was like, I don't really understand what it means. Did you get the meaning of it when you was reading it? No, I didn't. had to Google it and I kind of remember now. I think it's just something about
Bonny (20:36.258)
Okay. Betty (20:57.308)
Maybe it's a bit harder for men. I don't know, maybe emotionally, but then when they have something and they love it, they protect it with everything. I think that was sort of the vibe, but it kept repeating it. And after a while I was like, you're annoying me a little bit. Bonny (21:05.453)
Yeah. Bonny (21:11.862)
Yeah. But I don't know whether or not it was because these are things Jed was saying, right? Judd was not Jed. For fuck's sake. But those are the things Judd was saying, And I think that was, I don't know if you've heard of the psychology of a human being, but we need to hear something five times before we accept it as reality. And I think that was him trying to fight through what the Windigo was doing to him, because I think he knew that he was
Betty (21:20.284)
J-J-J-Judd. Yeah. Bonny (21:41.666)
doing things that were setting stuff in motion. And he was trying to make, he was trying to make Lewis understand without being able to say it. It was a creepy fucking book, okay? Like you, the first part of it was like, it was build up. I'm like, I don't get why I need to fucking know this. And I know it's like, I was reading it I'm like, okay, I'm gonna skip to audio right now, because I think this is irrelevant. And I did, I went to audio for a while and I'm like, I'm like, okay, I think. It's setting me up for something and if I don't have this, I'm not gonna get it. Betty (22:16.316)
Mmm. Bonny (22:16.706)
And I was right. Everything was relevant. I wouldn't have cut a thing out of that book. Not one lick. Betty (22:21.372)
No, looking back, that's exactly how I felt. So if I was going to recommend this book to someone, I would be like, it wasn't that the whole thing was slow, but maybe get heading towards 50%, maybe that 20 % before I was just like, why is this going on? And it does explain about stuff like the whole thing where he goes to dig up his son, which is after the 50%, I think. But that whole bit went on so long. I was like, I know what's going to happen. Just
Bonny (22:28.536)
Mm-hmm. Betty (22:50.448)
get to that bit, I wanna know what happens when he comes back. I don't need this very long, like I was reading it and I don't even think I was taking it in apart from while we're still in that scene. That's the only sort of thing that annoys me about this book, but I don't like, not like when you start a book and it over explains the scenery to the point you're like, had four pages of scenery. It started feeling a little bit like that. It felt a little bit over. Bonny (23:13.422)
But that's, yeah, but that's a Stephen King thing. Like there's a running joke that Stephen King can take several pages to explain the color of an apple. Betty (23:23.14)
Yeah, yeah, I see that. Bonny (23:24.59)
And that's, but he, do you know why he does that? Not everybody can see pictures in their heads. Like that's, there is a lot of the population that when they're reading, don't visualize what they're seeing. And he writes so that you know exactly what it is without being able to see it in your head. Betty (23:44.413)
I also feel like, so that scene particularly where he's going to the graveyard, he's got to his son up, then he's got to get his son out and all the tools and get over this ridiculous fencing or gait or whatever it was. It was building up a lot of suspense. Even though I was like, hurry up, I was like, come on, because I just need to, so I do think it's a suspense thing as well in some of them scenarios. So I don't think it's always about me, it was just infuriating to me at the time, because I just wanted to know what the kid was going to do when he come back. Bonny (23:56.323)
Yeah. Bonny (24:14.318)
Yeah, but I guess for me, was the buildup was it was working its way. Is she going to get back in time? Is Rachel going to get back in time to stop him? Like, that's where it was like, she's rushing to get there. It's taking him ages. And I'm like, how close is this going to get? And I'm like, fuck, you're going to literally see like the kid coming out the ground. Like, what's going on? But I really enjoyed that. But I also know what Stephen King's like, and I know he's a wordy fuck. You only have to look at it. Betty (24:29.66)
Yeah. Yeah. Bonny (24:42.99)
1,200 pages of kids on bikes. Quite the clown. Betty (24:47.77)
Isn't there like, I haven't read Stephen King before, I was Googling after. I don't think I particularly picked anything up because I haven't read any, but wasn't there some like, I don't know if they're Easter eggs, but like there's references to other books in there, like Kujo, I think the dog gets referenced and there was a reference to another book or people was asking. if the daughter had the shine and I didn't know what that meant I had to google that but that's from the shining isn't it and is that because of her premonitions or something so it was like he places bits in books that don't really they're not relevant to the story like it doesn't matter if you don't get it but if you do get it it makes you go oh and then it reminds you of one of his other books which I like that in the book
Bonny (25:30.7)
Yeah, that's exactly what he does. So yeah, well, you're going to, if you continue with his, a lot of his older books, you're going to find a lot of that. Cause I was, said to Mike, like I was, I was still reading and I'm like, I was half expecting the baddie to be Randall. And he's like, no, but it's not. I'm like, yeah, I know it's not, but I really, I was like, I was expecting it. And I know you don't understand what I'm saying, but he's like the big bad. in a lot of other books, but in different formats. So yeah, I'm like, I was half expecting it to be like, ooh, it's Randall, but yeah, it wasn't. Betty (26:10.076)
I think I also read as well that this book was a bit inspired by stuff that he was going through when he wrote the book. Have you read this? Bonny (26:19.374)
Yeah, he draws a lot from his, from his life, like a lot of things that are going on. He was, I was going to say he was an alcoholic. He was a severe drug addict. There was stuff going on. He got hit by a I don't know if he wrote that when, yeah, he got hit by a car. Betty (26:24.07)
So I think, there you go. Betty (26:33.658)
Yeah, think I read that they had lost a family cat and his son had had a near road accident. But imagine that as a parent though, like something nearly like really traumatic like could have happened and you could have lost your and it was a two year old from what I've read as well. And then you write a book about it actually happening. That's crazy. Bonny (26:44.792)
Yeah. Bonny (26:58.798)
I think it's like, it is, but I think that that works as trauma-based therapy as well. Like I'm gonna digress just very slightly. I had a lady come on for an interview. She'd written a book because she had immense grief and her therapist has said, write a story, like push out some of the things that are bothering you and write a story. Her book, she'd never written before, was absolutely stunning because she bought so much of her pain and grief through writing and she felt better when she was finished. Betty (27:05.382)
therapy. Betty (27:21.702)
Wow. Bonny (27:27.48)
So I actually understand that as a tool for helping yourself get through grief. Betty (27:32.923)
Yeah, it's like therapy, even if you just talked it through, like what was the worst that could have happened? What's the... So it is, yeah, I agree, it's like a therapy. I've got a bit of a funny story about this actually, like dead cats, which sounds hilarious, dead cats. But I had a friend who got a knock on the door and they was like, I'm really sorry, but we think your cat has passed away and it's up the road. So she was like, God. So she's got her cat, put it in like a shoe box or something at home. Bonny (27:44.174)
god
Betty (28:02.522)
had to tell her kids, they were all crying their eyes out, like really sad, was probably waiting forever after coming home to like help her deal with the cat. All afternoon they're crying, next minute a cat walks in. Bonny (28:17.112)
So who's freaking cats in a box? Betty (28:17.432)
It's not... It's not her dead cat. It... Don't... I don't know. I think she had to go back and look at the... I can't remember the end of that story, but yeah, it wasn't her... But she thought it was her cat and then her cat come home. Bonny (28:21.109)
So whose cat was it? Bonny (28:25.831)
What did they do with it? Bonny (28:36.702)
my god. Could you imagine that? Betty (28:38.288)
Imagine that though, you shoot yourself, you'd think it'd come out of the box, but I think... The cat was still there, just wasn't her cat, and she told her kids and they're all crying. Bonny (28:44.45)
Ha! Bonny (28:50.778)
no! Betty (28:53.036)
back sorry I had to get that story I just literally remembered that story I thought I must tell that because it's funny
Bonny (28:58.866)
That is pretty funny. That is pretty funny. Okay. So I don't know if you noticed, but King, because when we're about that pet cemetery, it's all kids that go up there to bury their dead creatures, right? It's a kid that set it up. Would you notice how the King seems to weaponize childhood? Because the cemetery is made by kids. Gage is like this innocent little toddler, hasn't even lived yet. And Ellie has to go through the whole thing about death for the very first time. Why do you think... Betty (29:26.64)
Mm-hmm. Bonny (29:28.61)
He picked kids as a catalyst for the destruction in this book. Betty (29:32.573)
That's a really good question. And I don't have an answer. haven't, I wasn't reading the book in that vein, because it's interesting as well, because the path to the pet cemetery, I can't remember if it's on Lewis's land or if it's, the path is near there and Judd says the kids take care of the path so they can get there. And it's like, what kids are doing this? Like, yeah, it is strange. Bonny (29:54.787)
Yeah. Bonny (30:00.078)
It's really fucking creepy and it's funny because if it was adults doing this, I'd be like, yeah, whatever, you're a quirky adult. But I'm like, when kids do it, it's extra fucking creepy. Betty (30:11.452)
Yeah. Bonny (30:12.366)
I'm not joking. Could you imagine, my Serenity is 10. Could you imagine her going, oh yeah, I'm just going to go up here and clear this pathway so that somebody else could go bury their dead animal in hopes it comes back. Betty (30:22.172)
Or like, I mean, in the movie, they have this whole thing with the kids and the masks, which is not in the book. So it's, and one of them, I think, was actually wheeling a dead dog, but it begs the question, like, if they have nothing to bury, are they just going up there to hang out? Is that where they go to like, do they just go down to the cemetery? I don't know, maybe the window goes up. Bonny (30:39.59)
Why? Is that's what yeah, I was just about to say that I wonder if it's like drawing them eggs is feeding off of them like energy wise What's it what's a hmm? Well the same with it right it was stealing kids innocence it was taking kids into wasn't stealing adults Right. I guess you don't know. I don't know why I'm asking that
Betty (30:51.429)
my god. Betty (31:03.548)
guess it's maybe a little scarier when it happens to kids, especially when you read stuff as an adult, because we want to protect kids and look after kids. Maybe that hits a lot harder when you read it, I guess. What did you think about Ellie having all these sort of premonitions and sort of knowing that something was going on? Where did that come from? Because that's not a Wendigo thing. that's she. So I think her and her mum had flown off again, hadn't they, after Gage's death. Bonny (31:12.823)
Yeah. Bonny (31:30.83)
Yeah, to her parents,
Betty (31:32.368)
But she knows something's happening and she's so convinced that her mum flies home. How was she getting these premonitions? And also on that level, the whole Victor thing. Bonny (31:42.37)
Yeah. Betty (31:45.37)
Right, do the premonition thing first and then we'll talk about Victor. How was that a part of this story? Bonny (31:52.078)
Okay, I don't actually know the answer to this, but because I've read other Stephen King novels, I know full well that sometimes there's like good versus evil and there's entities that can do the bad stuff and there's entities that do the good stuff. And it makes you wonder if he was foreshadowing, like he was placing in there because when they, I can't remember what book it is. Oh God, I can't remember what book it is now, but they literally, all these people die in it. And you've got some people that are drawn to like the good energy, like this good thing. And some of them are drawn towards like the bad stuff where they go and like fight and drink and gamble and stuff like that. So I wonder if maybe she's just one of the precocks. Like in Firestarter, she can just start fires for no fucking reason. So she may well just have a gift because it crops up a lot in his books. Betty (32:35.644)
Mm-hmm. Betty (32:40.954)
Yeah, don't get wrong. buy into all that. like a bit of, like, you know, I don't always like things. I know this isn't like fantasy realm, but like, you wouldn't normally say that people are psychics unless you do believe in all that, but there's no evidence is what I mean. So I quite liked the book in that vein of there was this like burial ground and I liked the premonition side of it as well. Like I bought into all of that. I liked it. Bonny (33:07.278)
But do you not think like Rachel has all this stuff with her dead sister, right? Like, why did it affect her so bad? Like, I understand that she was in charge of her sibling. Her sibling got meningitis for fuck's sake. That is not something you can prevent. Like, I am sorry. It's not her fault. So like she kicked her into a pond and she got polio. And then she's like dreaming about her and the delta's really like weird and gross and. Betty (33:13.948)
Mmm. Bonny (33:37.216)
It's psychologically terrifying. Where did that come from then? Is she really seeing something? Did she pass it onto a door? Or is she just a twisted nutcase? Like it's really hard to say. And I love this, that King never really answers these questions because I'm like, that seems like a really weird storyline to have in there anyway. Like, she doesn't like death where she lost her sister. That would have been the end of that if that's all it was, right? So why are these things plaguing her? Why, what is going on there? Betty (33:45.915)
Yeah. Betty (34:01.979)
Yeah. Betty (34:05.412)
Yeah, I don't know. And I think this is a book, you know, I'm not one for like ambiguous endings or ambiguous things where it doesn't really answer it, but I feel like, I don't know whether it's just because I've made my mind up on it or, but I was, I was okay. Cause I just think it's like your mental stability, like how she dealt with that as a child. Like she was really young, she was left on her own with her. She shouldn't have been, and then she had to try and revive her. Like people go through traumatic things, you know,
in their lives and some people it affects them massively and some people it doesn't. So I was okay with it being ambiguous because I think it just some of them things just really depend on the person, the situation and how it all happened. So. Bonny (34:46.446)
Yeah, but she was like, she was assuming her sister wanted her dead and wanted to hurt her and wanted to do horrible things. like that seems to me as though she did do something pretty terrible to her fucking sister and she's got raging guilt. Or. Betty (35:01.528)
Maybe, but I think she, I don't know if it's in the film or if it's in the book, she does say like she sort of wanted her to die because she was just in so much pain and she had turned quite nasty and horrible, but because she was in so much pain, which you can imagine if you are at that point, you're a young kid, you can't understand it all. You're not like an adult where maybe that's where that come from because she was just angry and horrible to everybody. And maybe I got the brunt of it because she had to look after her sometimes. Bonny (35:19.81)
Right. Bonny (35:25.506)
Yeah. Betty (35:29.776)
bad parents by the way, leaving an ill child on her own with an eight year old who's supposed to feed her and look after her. Bonny (35:36.952)
Don't even get me started on those fucking parents. Betty (35:39.843)
In the film though, the way they did that in the film, was like, fuck it. But she'd come down that fucking, what do they call it? Dunwator. We don't have them in the UK, do we? Unless they do in hotels. I don't think, I'm not aware of it. don't know in hotels, but in your houses, you're like in American houses or maybe in Canada, some houses have these, don't they? But. Bonny (35:48.696)
done with it,
Bonny (35:54.412)
Ta-da! Betty (36:05.008)
That was quite traumatic, the way that that happened. So I think that might have explained more why it was traumatic for her because of the visual. But the book wasn't the same. was just, I think she choked food or something that she'd just given her. But yeah. Bonny (36:20.194)
Yeah, something like that. It's it's strange because then also Lewis is seeing, Victor, right? Like, so he's seeing like warnings from a dead person, like what happened there. Why? Like what did that? Because the Windigo wouldn't be fucking warning him, would it? So there was something there. There was something there that was actively trying to help. And I don't know if that was given the premonitions to Ellie because she was more susceptible because she was a child. Betty (36:27.824)
Mmm. Betty (36:46.14)
the same force, like you said, the good and evil thing. Even though there's evil in the world, maybe he saying there is good and they are constantly trying to battle, I don't know. But yeah. Bonny (36:50.947)
GAH! Bonny (36:57.454)
Yeah. Well, think about the logic here, okay? We don't have 24 hours of sunlight, do we? We have periods of darkness because it's necessary for balance and you can't have good without evil. So there had to have been an opposing force somewhere because we are just lonely humans. We can't stand up to these dire straits. So there must have been something. Had to have been. Betty (37:12.23)
Yeah. Betty (37:19.844)
Yeah, 100%. But again, I'm okay with it not completely being explained and us being able to get to that. sometimes that really pisses me off with books, but it didn't with this one. I literally finished this book and when I first finished it, I was like, my God, what have I just read and what's just happened today? Bonny (37:31.949)
I know. Betty (37:41.853)
I'm glad that I didn't finish it really late at night. But I was also like even sort of thinking about it in the next couple of days and I was like, I don't massively have like these huge questions where I'm like, why or what was this? I've got topics to talk about, but I didn't feel like I didn't get everything that I needed from that book. Do you get what I mean? Yeah. Bonny (38:00.876)
Yeah. Because that's how he, that's how he writes. He gives you, he gives you this story. He leaves enough loose ends that you will have some questions, but he ties up enough that you feel like you, you're not there driving yourself crazy. And he does that with all his books. All of the books I've ever read will leave this one, like air of mystery, but it's not going to drive you nuts enough that you start. Betty (38:05.051)
Mm. Bonny (38:29.88)
going through Reddit threads. Betty (38:33.887)
after after books. No, I do. I think sometimes when you finish a book, you're like, that didn't make sense. That completely didn't explain something. I didn't have that when I was Googling Reddit after this. I do this sometimes as we're going to talk. No, just to see what people are thinking and see if I've missed like a really good question or a really good point. And I didn't find loads of stuff. I found people talking about it, but I didn't find I found people asking questions, but there was answers that I knew. I was like, oh, it's
Bonny (38:35.981)
Yeah
Betty (39:03.796)
I feel like he done it really well and that I wasn't left thinking, I don't understand what happened. Like I get it all and I'm okay with not knowing exactly everything. But is that a bit to do with like, not like we think about like spirit world and is there heaven, is there hell? We don't know. And although we might wanna know, you have to be okay with not knowing, because we don't know. And I feel like it's a bit like that. Like it's fine to make up your own judgment on that. Yeah. Bonny (39:27.01)
Yeah. Yeah. Bonny (39:32.526)
It's funny that he manages to do that and you're just okay with that, whereas there's other books where you're like, I want to kill somebody. Like, what was that? Betty (39:39.878)
fucking Marcus Dobry is top of my list Marcus Kluwer he really annoyed me
Bonny (39:42.67)
Yeah, sure. I know you... I like it though. I like it though. But if you read more of King's books, you're going to see common threads and themes where you'll start to get a better understanding of the world he's created. Like, it's supposed to be like this alien entity that's like, it wakes up every so many years to eat... And it eats kids, you know what I mean? And then you've got like Randall Flagg and then you've got like... Yeah. Betty (39:58.49)
Mmm. Bonny (40:11.692)
I won't go into like everything, but yeah, that's like. Betty (40:13.82)
was going say, you saying Miranda, but I've got no clue who that is. Bonny (40:17.024)
Or if you continue down this path, you will. But even Firestar, like this kid wakes up and she's got paranormal, she can set fire to things. Carrie, for example, she suddenly gets telekinesis and kills everybody at the prom. You know what I mean? So yeah, he has a common theme here. And no one questions where the fuck did these powers come from, did they? Betty (40:31.676)
Yeah! Betty (40:38.2)
No, mentioning, I remember that I watched Carrie when I was like a young teenager, but I can't remember what happened apart from she got her period. That's it, that's all my memories does from that. That's it. No, because she thinks she's dying, doesn't she? Because she gets scared and she doesn't know, that's the only bit. I have no idea what else. and she sets fire to something. The gym, no? Bonny (40:44.323)
Yeah. Bonny (40:50.158)
That's a weird thing to remember. Bonny (40:58.54)
Yeah. Bonny (41:05.294)
No. No. Yeah, but I don't, I think that just happens as a consequence of her, like she massacres everybody. She's got powers, that's what I mean. So it's, for me, I guess I didn't really think about the premonition stuff because I'm like, yeah, there's characters throughout his books that already have these powers. I'm gonna go right from the tangent. The Institute, for example. Betty (41:06.992)
There is a fire though, right? Betty (41:15.004)
Oh, okay. But there is a fire. I remember that. Bonny (41:34.382)
The place collects kids with these kinds of abilities. Like that's what they do. They bring them in. Yeah, it's, the TV show was phenomenal from the book too. But I guess for me it was like, well, this is just part of Stephen King's world. So like, I didn't question it, but I guess for you, this is your first introduction. I'm like, oh yeah, I guess it would be a question for you. Betty (41:49.5)
So, yeah. Oh, as a first Stephen King, bearing in mind we have got so much stuff lined up that we are planning, so stay tuned for all of that. But yeah, when I can fit some in, will definitely, trying to get ahead with all what we're trying to do so I get some gaps, I can be like, I need to listen to these. I've downloaded some books today which are not even thriller that I'm like, haven't read anything else for a while. So yeah, that would definitely be on my list of things to try and read 100%. Can I ask you though? What did you rate this book, either then, now? What do you rate this? How many stabbies does he get? Bonny (42:32.846)
pretty sure when I first read it, was four. I'm pretty sure the last time I read it was four. I'm still sitting at a four. I think that there was, but I understand King as an author. He doesn't write fast paced books. I felt like I needed it in a couple of spots. And I guess the ending I could have done with a little bit more of the flashy supernatural stuff, but it kind of just ended with
Betty (42:41.35)
same. Bonny (43:03.0)
doom and the acceptance that this was just, was, yeah, they've lost their son. Betty (43:07.738)
Yeah, I'm the same. I think pacing wise, definitely wanted it to crack on a bit faster. I also would have enjoyed a bit more of the undead kids. So it wasn't just an instant. No, but do you know, mean, like I wanted to see what he would have done apart from just try and murder people. Like maybe that could have been built a bit slower that he was building. I don't know, a bit more about the undead side of it and how they dealt with that. And then he could have turned into a murderer. I don't know. I wanted more of that. I felt like. Bonny (43:28.525)
Yeah. Betty (43:36.686)
It was building to a point and then it was over a bit too quick. I just wanted more of the nasty stuff. What is wrong? Bonny (43:40.226)
Yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I'm with you. Okay. I felt the same way. And it's funny because as I was, as I was reading it this time around, I'm like, now Ellie's having these premonitions of like bad things that are going to happen. What I would have enjoyed was her seeing premonitions of her brother, like covered in dirt, one eyeballs like sunken off to the side, like doing horrible things to the family and waking up and then kind of like side eyeing her brother. I would have liked that build up. Like why is she seeing that? Like what the fuck's going on? I'm like, that would have been epic. Like to just have a little bit more of the horror aspects. Betty (44:04.923)
Yeah, that was pretty good. Bonny (44:12.024)
But I really think he was pushing the grief side of things. literally, okay, so Lewis buries the kid, comes back undead, and he literally still wants to believe it's his son. His son ain't in there anymore. It's a fucking meat sock for evil. Betty (44:15.453)
Thank you. Betty (44:31.741)
Meat stock? my good lord! Bonny (44:36.014)
I couldn't think of a foul word. meat soup maybe would have been better. Betty (44:43.633)
What? Mink salt. too many different variations of what that could mean. Right. Bonny (44:51.502)
It would have been a meat soup for evil. That's the word I was looking for, not sock. Betty (44:58.993)
That was funny. Bonny (44:59.522)
Hello dear. One of the things I did enjoy. I was just going to say one of the things I did enjoy was like all the hidden meanings that. look at me. I look like I'm crying. Betty (45:02.845)
I've lost my train of thought. I'll go on. Betty (45:12.989)
I've got something to just add on the endings before you move on. So on the ending, obviously the book did it one way. in the film, Ellie had died and then she ends up killing her mum and killing her dad. So now they're all like it and then you just see them walking back to the two year old kid who's been shot in the car. What did you think of that ending? Bonny (45:14.545)
I all the-
Bonny (45:18.137)
go ahead. Bonny (45:37.708)
It was creepy as fuck. Betty (45:39.223)
I quite liked it. And in like a really horrid way, I was like, I hope you now kill your child so he can join you. And then it felt like a happier ending. Bonny (45:54.666)
All dead together! Betty (45:56.081)
We'll you later! Bonny (45:59.854)
they didn't get to the kid in the car, the kid still would die. How's it going to take care of itself? It can't get out of the car without dying. It can't drive off. Judd's dead. Like, you know what? It probably would have been the better ending is if they killed the kid because otherwise that kid's just going to suffer for days with no water. Betty (46:08.967)
Jod's dead. Betty (46:19.837)
Yeah, I think the jizz is they've all walked back and I feel like they're obviously gonna get the kids, but it was like family was reunited at the end. Then it gave it a slight happy ending to me and I don't know if I'm just really just or if that's what they wanted because obviously it's a horror, it should a horrible ending, but it kind of... I have weird thoughts. Anyway. Yeah, I would. You was gonna move on. Bonny (46:29.454)
You are
Bonny (46:41.646)
You really do! I'm starting to get worried. Betty (46:48.935)
What was she gonna say? Bonny (46:49.422)
Oh yeah, no, was, um, like I was, I was for me, I was, because I've read the book before, I wasn't trying to pay so much attention to the story and where it was going, but I was looking for like, cause I know King loves his symbolism. So it was like, he has this road. He talks about a fricking lot because the truck symbolizes unstoppable death and modern danger, but their threat is ancient. And I thought it was really clever how he took the truck as in something that could happen to any of us on any given day. Betty (47:19.741)
Mm-hmm. Bonny (47:20.034)
But that entity is only where they live. It's like ancient evil, truck. And I'm like, wow, he is so deep. And Mike's like looking at me like, I really don't think it's that deep. Betty (47:36.734)
I'm kind of with Mike, but you did just make me think You did just make me think though because that house was for sale They was moving to that house because they wanted a better quality of life and he could get a job And it was like cheaper to live. I guess they would have like he'd have more family time He wouldn't have to do like mad doctor hours. I won't that's why that house was so cheap
Bonny (47:49.005)
Yeah. Bonny (47:56.428)
Yeah. Bonny (48:00.366)
I think it was waiting. I think it was waiting for a family. Like I think that that was the family accepted in. I half wonder if the house was empty because whatever. And no, but no, I think there must've been a family there before. Judd does mention it, that there was a family, that there was someone there before, but no one since. Yeah, but we don't know what happened. Betty (48:12.593)
Doesn't mean before does it? That's what I thinking. Betty (48:20.262)
It's just. Yes. But you never hear what... Bonny (48:30.798)
And I was, cause I was thinking about that. I'm like, how do you know that the, the windigo didn't need that paranormal KED to help break through that barrier? So it was like, yes, you can have the house. Like everyone else was like, Oh, I ain't living there. It's creepy. But for some reason it attracted and. Betty (48:47.611)
Yeah, I was going to go down the route of like, like, is it more of a child thing? But I'm thinking about so in the book, there is a there's, I'm pretty sure it's a grown up child though, that gets killed and the dad brings him back. The mum's not around. But I don't actually know how old that kid was or child of someone. Bonny (49:02.115)
Yeah. Bonny (49:07.897)
Wasn't, wait, wait, wasn't that the kid that got killed whilst he was in the army? It was like a young man. Betty (49:14.407)
Maybe, yeah. But could have been during the army at 1617. So I don't know if it tells you, but maybe it does lean more towards taking over children, because we don't hear about any other people, do we? We only hear about animals that have been brought back. A bull, that was random. That was a very random thing to the story. Where did that come from? Bonny (49:16.493)
Yeah. Yeah. Bonny (49:33.122)
Y-
Bonny (49:37.986)
Maybe the ball was trying to symbolize something and I missed it. Maybe there was a metaphor in there, Jack. Betty (49:41.361)
BOSCH! Bonny (49:45.678)
Ha ha ha ha ha! Betty (49:49.009)
Yeah, the dog, the bull and a child that we've... Was there a parrot? Bonny (49:54.368)
What? They're a parrot? Bonny (49:58.306)
Could have sworn there was a parrot. Betty (50:00.318)
Is that not just buried in the pet cemetery though? Not actually brought back to life. But yeah, I don't know if it tells you. So the guy who ends up killing his child that he brought back from the dead, I don't know if it tells you how old that kid was or if it was a kid or if he was 25 or if he was 16 or 17. Maybe the Indigo likes, maybe he likes youngers. This is getting weird. Bonny (50:16.483)
Yeah. Bonny (50:20.301)
Yeah. Bonny (50:24.686)
You like the youngins? That's Jackie, that was crossing a line earlier. I wonder if it's just kids are easier to manipulate. They're easier to get into the psyche of, to convince of stuff. They were a little jaded as grownups, But do you not think that the biggest fear in this whole book, if you had to pick, would you want to take on the windigo or the loss of a child? What was scarier? Betty (50:29.179)
It's getting worse, you might say. Betty (50:48.445)
no, no, no, when to go? Bonny (50:52.11)
Yeah, exactly. I'm like, fuck that, I'll take the ghost, thanks. I'll take whatever that creepy fuck is over there for 10. You know what I mean? But I think that's how clever Stephen King is because I think that most parents would feel that way. Betty (51:06.077)
Will you do anything for your kid? Bonny (51:07.884)
Not everybody, not everyone. Okay. I wonder if, I wonder, like for example, let's take my mother. If that had been me, would she take on the Windigo or would she just leave me dead? And honestly, she'd probably run for a fucking, my mom hates creepy shit. Betty (51:11.259)
they shouldn't have. Betty (51:29.309)
Okay, I thought you were saying it as if your mum doesn't love you. I was like, excuse me. Okay. Bonny (51:32.63)
No, no, no, my mum does not like horror stuff, okay? She'd probably say, well, look at that fucking thing and run away. And it wouldn't be the, my Stacey, would be, fuck that, look at that thing. Betty (51:41.886)
Does it? Wait, does it describe what that looks like in the book? can't remember this. Have I missed? It's like talking in the woods. You can just hear stuff and he's like, it's the loons. That's all I remember. I don't remember seeing an. Bonny (51:49.648)
I think it was just like the whole thing was just terrifying. Bonny (51:59.64)
But it takes over like, but it takes over the humans. Like it was talking to Judd about his wife, remember? And it was like, she likes to take it up the butt. And we all laughed at you. Like she used to take it. Betty (52:04.438)
yeah, in... Betty (52:11.263)
my god, there were some bits that really shocked me like when Gage comes back and I wish I'd written this down but he says something and it's really fucked up and I was like Jesus Christ. Bonny (52:14.136)
Pfft
Bonny (52:20.204)
Yeah! But that's what I mean, it's like... It was creepy, like I'm not entirely sure we could handle that, like, I dunno. Betty (52:29.181)
But that did make me laugh a bit and I don't know if that was the expected reaction but it just like in a really creepy like quite quite suspense bit it done a bit of shock that made me laugh a bit. Because he just swore I don't know if he was talking to Judd I was gonna call him Judd then. I don't know if he was talking to Judd and was like you fucking old man or I don't know what he said it was really funny. Bonny (52:35.384)
Shock! Bonny (52:40.791)
Yeah
Bonny (52:52.278)
It was hilarious. was, I was dying. Okay. There was, there was spots in there where I could feel like the emotions waving over me. Like I could feel, I wanted to cry. And then other times I did laugh. It was funny. Other times I was like, what did he just fucking say? What? Betty (53:07.677)
I think they did it in the movie with Ellie as well. I'm sure she come out with something and swore and I was like... Bonny (53:16.596)
he's really good at that. But I'm to ask you a question. What, how high do you rate the horror in this book? Like how horror was it for you? Betty (53:18.546)
Yeah. Betty (53:29.511)
hard question. I'm trying to compare it to other horror books I've read which I don't know that I read great great great horror books. I read good books but I don't know if I got that horror feel. I think this one was definitely better than all the other ones that I had read so far. Probably just needed more of it. Less building expense and more getting to the get to the dirty shit. Bonny (53:48.044)
Yeah. Okay. Bonny (53:54.158)
Do you not think that he kind of made it so it felt like this could be your real life and there's like a little bit of paranormal over here and that was more terrifying? Because I've read a lot of horror books lately trying to catch up with what we're up to and he would still, this book was written, what, back in the eighties? Still one of the best horror books I ever read. Betty (53:59.13)
Yeah. Betty (54:12.017)
Mmm. Yeah, I think you're probably right actually, but is that not also the sign of a good writer? It leaves you wanting more. I wanted a bit more and maybe that's not a bad thing because if he overloaded it too much, it might have been like, come on now. Like when I read that Splatterpunk book, I was like, come on, it's too much. So yeah, do you know what? You're probably right. It's probably because as well it's left me going, I'm definitely going to read another Stephen King book. Bonny (54:31.01)
Yeah. Bonny (54:41.206)
Okay, which was going to be my next question. Do you have one picked out? Betty (54:43.741)
No, not yet. But it is probably a standout. But I think I'll probably have a Google and see which ones of his rates highest. I like the one you mentioned earlier about taking all the kids who've got the powers. That sounds good. I haven't had. Yeah. Bonny (54:56.856)
The Institute, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant book. I really freaking enjoyed that. We watched the show. It was phenomenal. Okay, so putting up against the horror, like how you felt about the horror, how high do you think the emotional damage was with like all the grief stuff? Betty (55:12.091)
fuck, the whole bit where he literally played out word by word that kid getting hit by that truck. That was fucking emotionally damaging. Like that fucks me up a bit. So yeah, hi. Hi. Because I think, well, I say this, I think people would understand anything about children, most normal people, but when you are a parent,
Bonny (55:20.397)
God, yes. Bonny (55:26.168)
Yeah, I bet. Bye. Okay. Betty (55:40.113)
that shit hits fucking hard because even though you don't want to, you imagine, how would I feel? Your brain immediately, you don't want to and your brain does it. So yeah, it's traumatic. Bonny (55:53.312)
Okay, so what trauma score would you give it then? Betty (55:57.584)
Out of five. Bonny (55:58.722)
Yeah! Betty (56:02.397)
I'd probably go with four. It went pretty bad. I think it could have been worse. I think it's funny that he kind of, I read that he wrote this and then put it away for like a few years and then he was ending a deal with a publishing company and he had to give him one more book and that's all he had. So he passed that over and was never actually intending to publish it because he didn't think anyone would read it and actually probably one of his higher rating books. Bonny (56:04.27)
Yeah, it was pretty bad. Bonny (56:31.522)
Yeah, it's definitely one of the most well-recognized books. It's definitely out there for me. Betty (56:36.967)
Well, I've heard, when I was younger and you used to read, I wasn't a massive reader at that point. It was more like primary school going to secondary school. And I was aware of Stephen King and I was definitely aware of that book. I didn't know everything that happened, obviously, but you're aware of that one, you're aware of it. There's probably another one if you told me more books, but I think you're aware of these things. it's, yeah, well known. Bonny (57:02.464)
yeah. Everyone knows Stephen King, I think. I think it's just one of those things. Okay. So do you think you would have survived being in that house? Betty (57:12.337)
Why are you asking me these questions? No, think I would have, would have, mind you, I say I would have left, but all the creepy shit happened at the end. that like, the only weird thing that was happening before then was the cat. And he's the only one that knew that the cat was undead. Like no one else, you know, just knew that the cat was acting weird. So really, for everyone else, nothing that creepy was going on. And then it was just when the sun died, isn't it? Bonny (57:26.168)
Yeah. Betty (57:41.009)
And then it all happened too quickly. Like there was only a few days till then he brought the kid back. I wouldn't like, if you're asking me if I would survive all that trauma, fuck knows. Do not, don't know. Don't want to think about it next. Bonny (57:56.942)
But would you have survived the horror stuff like Windgar? Betty (58:01.212)
the horse! Fuck no! Who fucking gets over that? You? Are you surviving that? Bonny (58:10.306)
Fuck no, I'd be the first one dead. Betty (58:13.713)
I was gonna say you might be more better equipped because you've read so many horror books. You will see it coming a mile off. You'll be like, I know exactly what's gonna fucking happen now. I've read it somewhere. That's what I reckon. We'll survive because you all know when we should run away. So I'm sticking. Bonny (58:26.126)
We should all leave. We should all leave. Bonny (58:33.486)
Yeah, but I could be saying that for no reason. I could be seeing zebras with its horses. Not necessarily the best person to put charge here. Betty (58:41.947)
I don't want to think about living in this life. I want to stay here with my wine and everything's happy. I'll cut the ghost. I want a horror book that's going to really get to me. And now I'm like, but just don't place me as a real person inside that horror. Let's just look in the book. Yeah, I know, but it scares me. Bonny (58:50.542)
So. Bonny (58:59.47)
That's the whole point of deep diving. Bonny (59:04.654)
I love it. You got anything else to add? Is there anything that you think we missed? Betty (59:09.245)
I don't think so. I think I'm good. Yep. Bonny (59:13.368)
Okay, good. Because I have my pot in line. Betty (59:17.263)
Okay, no I've got mine too. Bonny (59:18.894)
Are you ready? I I've got, I was gonna, like, I was feeling all like inspired and shit. I was like, are you ready? Like, pet, are you ready? Pet cemetery isn't about the coming back. It's about what the living become when they cannot let go. Betty (59:25.021)
Cool. Betty (59:29.553)
I like it cool. Betty (59:41.212)
Mic drop. Bonny (59:42.476)
Yeah. I was getting all philosophical and shit. Betty (59:44.751)
inside. Love it! Bonny (59:50.414)
Slayers, if you have enjoyed today's episode, hit us up in the comments and tell us what your favorite Stephen King book is and whether or not you'd like to see us deep dive it sometime in the future. You should definitely be following us, commenting, liking, sharing this episode. And you should share this episode with anybody that doesn't like cats. Make it worse for them, okay? Seriously, you send that episode right on over. Betty (01:00:13.213)
You
Bonny (01:00:19.532)
and you're going to make them really creeped out. And then you can tell them that we have better episodes. We're not just talking about niggas. Bonny (01:00:31.416)
Seriously though, seriously. Send this episode out, get us some likes, get us some shares, and hopefully you will be joining us next week when we come back with, I can't remember. Betty (01:00:42.789)
Next week we are doing a mix of books by an author I can't remember but it's all the right we need to redo this it's all the
no, it's not that one. No, I'm even saying it's something else. Right, you can redo this, but it's Dragon Toe. we've all got mixtures of books. Why don't you just highlight that one? Just say we've discussed books as well as the girl with the dragon toe. Bonny (01:01:08.31)
Okay, we'll be back next week with our mini pod where we are going to be going back to our Thriller roots for a little bit. One of the books we're be highlighting is The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and I'm actually already halfway through it. Betty (01:01:21.977)
It is a long book, I'm just gonna say that. We keep picking very long ones, we need to stop doing that. The last three have been massive. Bonny (01:01:23.532)
It's a long book. Yes, yes, we do. hope that... Well, yeah. I think this one's bigger though. Girl with the Dragon Dotto. Yeah, it's a big one. We hope you're gonna join us for that episode. And if you have any questions and you wanna reach out, you should definitely be hitting us in the DMs. We hope that you have the reading week that you deserve readers and we will catch you next week. Take care. Betty (01:01:35.621)
It's biggest. Betty (01:01:50.333)
See you soon.