Book Slayers

We all think we could spot a cult a mile away, but what if the warning signs were so subtle?
Masquerading as self help, community, and unconditional love, The Mirror House Girls is a chilling deep dive into a desire to belong that can lead ordinary people down a path so dark and twisted they can no longer recognize themselves.
0:22 Join us as we deep dive into a book that will chill you to your very core.
0:39 Hello readers, welcome back to Betty and Bonnie, the shit talking book sales.
I'm Bonnie.
I'm Betty.
And we just did.
Probably one of the best thriller books I've read in a very long time, The Mirror House Girls by Faith Gardner.
0:55 I don't know if you have read this book, but it's really heavy on cult.
What did you think?
I think you liked it a lot more than what I did.
No.
Didn't not like it, but I saw your review before I finished it.
1:11 I don't know where you posted it.
And I was like, by the time I got to the end, to be honest, I was like, get on with it.
I felt a bit like that towards the end.
I don't know if it's because obviously the whole time through the book, as the reader and as we know, it's a cult thing and they don't.
1:26 I don't know if I was just getting annoyed that they wasn't realizing towards the end.
And I was like, come on, bitch.
You know you can see it.
You can.
There's little glimpses of her.
Well, like from sort of halfway, maybe 3/4 away freeway, you've got glimpses where she's picking up and it's like, and then she talks herself out of it again.
1:43 You're like.
Fucking just stop.
Doing that and please, please, please just work it out.
You know, but from somebody who was in a marriage with a narcissistic man, you can understand from my perspective how she was talking herself out of the red flags because I did that a lot myself.
2:01 Like, she started out, she was vulnerable.
She'd lost her grandmother.
She was really, really sad.
She doesn't really have a relationship with her mom, just seems to have a support system.
And that is the catalyst right there, that she was so vulnerable that somebody found an in with her.
2:17 And it happened really slow.
If you really look at how the timeline progressed.
They got to move into the house for cheap, rent, lots of space, they had fun, they had pies, they were drinking.
They all had a commonality in there.
And then Simon did something really fucking sneaky.
2:32 He pulled something out of her, that secret about her dad, remember, to make her more vulnerable.
Well, these people are the only ones they've told now.
They are a collective group.
And she felt very connected.
And then that's what for me, that was that was the point where she starts to see the red flags, but she doesn't have anything else.
2:53 She's got nowhere else to go.
Like she's already moved out of a place.
She's living with them.
They are her support, they are her friends, they hurt her, our family.
So do you overlook red flags when you have nothing else?
So I kind of got that.
I definitely saw through the book.
3:08 It was everything happened slowly, everything was good at the beginning and even though I was reading it and I obviously knew that it was either a proper cult or it's going to become more of a cult.
You could see why she wasn't leaving or why she was happy there because as well, don't forget like when she first moves in.
3:27 So obviously she like you said, she first met this like grief council support and she connects with this girl who's also lost her grandmother.
So they've got a connection there.
Then she invites her to the house and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, but there is a room here.
So she's like, cool, this seems great.
There's lots of people.
3:42 Obviously, like you said, she didn't have like lots of people around her.
And you know, even the things that he don't like going for the beach cleanups, feeding the homeless, doing like really good things.
And it always sounded good.
And all of it was like, what was one of the mantras?
It was like heart, something to do with hard work.
3:59 It's not worth doing if it's not hard.
It was like that, I can't remember the exact thing.
So you could know.
It was like, I could see how someone would be like, wow, these people are really good.
Like they're doing good things, so why wouldn't you believe it?
Will you put your trust in?
You should obviously put her trust in these people, hasn't she?
4:16 Yeah.
And if you think about that too, putting her trust into those people and then she finds out that they're not good people, that it's all wrong, she would lose trust in herself.
And I don't think she's ready to look that way yet.
Whoa, deep.
Really deep.
That's kind of what I got from it.
4:33 And if she had like she didn't trust her mom, right.
Her and her mom have a very closed off.
They were really closed off and not very secure relationship that when her mom's like you're in a cult, she's like or not.
So she was just automatically going.
I'm not going to believe that because my mum said it.
4:50 Yeah, you just don't get it.
You don't get my family.
They look after me, you know, we do drinks.
We like party.
We we have a good time.
I feel connected with everyone.
These people get me.
These people get me.
You don't get me, mom.
These bet you get me.
5:06 I can see because it was such a slow build, especially the beginning.
Apart from.
So let's talk about all the different like part of it was like self improvement journeys like this.
I'm as the leader.
He's got like was it like 5 women with her?
5:22 Can't remember.
Yeah.
It's like the old, late, old, like a chick.
Dakota Scala when the drug was new one and then yeah, there was somebody else.
I thought maybe not.
Yeah, I think there was like 4 of them.
And then her, she was the 5th.
5:38 Yeah, I think so.
Anyway, but then then they start doing and for some reason, I think, well, at the beginning he's like she doesn't really find him attractive, but she can see like weird things start to happen.
Like one time Simon like Snogs one of the girls and she's like, well, that's a bit weird, but OK, maybe.
5:56 And then she starts herself improvement with him.
So everyone's got a fear basically.
And everything that he says, if you have negative feelings, if it's jealousy, if it's anger, it's all stemmed from fear.
Do you think that's true?
Because when I was reading, I was like, is that absolutely true?
6:13 I was getting sucked in and I knew I was fucking reading.
You know what I think maybe because if you think about it, OK, if you have a partner, I'm going to use Mike as an example.
I don't feel this way.
I'm going to use him as an example.
Let's say like he is suddenly all jukeyed up, you know, wearing something nice.
He's going out and there are goals at the bar.
6:29 Well, now I don't feel secure in myself and women are looking at him, and my jealousy is being overtaken by the fact that I fear losing him.
So I guess I know why.
Yeah, I can.
Feel like he the things that he was saying at the beginning, some of it was ringing true even for me and I was like why am I believing I I know where this is going so I'm already believing it so everyone that's.
6:54 The that's manipulation for you though, because it sounds so true and logical.
But did you see that at some point you were like Nah dude this is it.
Whereas I could see why she got further because I have been manipulated.
I know how easy it is and it's not.
7:09 It's not even a self reflection thing.
It's who the person is and how they get to your own fear and they use that against you.
But that's exactly what he does.
So everyone in the house has a fear.
So the old lady, I think, is Maude.
Call her an old, Yeah.
Something like that, yeah.
7:25 My age or 50 or something?
She was in her 50s I think A50 year.
Old So Maude, if it's Maude, her fear is of snakes.
So in her bedroom I was a snake.
Not in a cage, not in like AI can't remember what they're called.
Like a prophet.
The snakes just like slivering around in a fucking room.
7:44 Her mattress was on the floor so we could get on.
Her imagine waking up and it's like laying.
On you.
I don't.
I don't love snakes, but I'm not afraid of snakes.
But I wouldn't lay in that fucking room.
I'm sorry, I wouldn't.
No, I'm not.
I'm not afraid.
8:01 But I I have this weird thing.
I don't want things to touch me.
Fish is a big thing for me.
I don't want to go in the sea because I don't want the fish to touch me.
I don't particularly want to touch a snake, but I have held a snake spider.
Do you remember when we went to that water place that was a water park and I think it was Los Angeles and they had a coral reef like snorkeling pool and I found it by accident.
8:25 I went in there.
I was like baby sharks and whatnot in there and you wanted to go, but when you got there you wouldn't get in.
Yeah, no, I've got a fear of like I my thing is like things that live in the sea, you should just leave them alone.
That's.
That's why with the sea.
8:41 So that's your here.
I would say spiders is worse because I can stay away from water in the sea.
I think spiders even though I've got better because where I live there's like a wooded area near me.
So living here rather than where I used to live when I was younger you do get a lot more spiders and stuff.
I normally just Hoover them bad boys up but sometimes you get ones that are like this.
9:01 And I have, we have I'm that's my big fear too.
Spiders.
Is he pretty much the only one I've got all.
I also don't like standing on chairs.
Now I realize that I don't like being that far off the floor on a chair standing up.
I'm not even joking.
I stood him on the other day.
I was going to bomb it.
I was going to bomb it.
9:17 I was like getting dizzy.
And Mike's like, Stacy, you're standing like 3 foot off the ground.
I'm like, it's three feet too fucking far.
But.
Anyway, spiders.
We get big wolf spiders here, and Matthew squashed one on his ceiling.
It look like a plate, like it was giant norms.
9:32 Yeah, look good.
The girls aren't good with it.
That was all right when they was younger.
But do you not think when we was younger we all didn't have a fear of stuff like that?
We would all hold shit and.
Oh no, I've spiders ever since I watched Aratophobia I.
Don't even know if I watched it if I have a blank that movie because I don't remember.
Well, I didn't watch it with you.
9:47 I watched it in bed.
I was alone.
I was home alone.
Mum probably shouldn't let me watch it on your.
Own.
I did.
I watched it because I loved horror, right?
We were always watching fucking horror movies.
Your dad used to do that delivery thing with the videos and we used to take out fucking horrors while he was gone.
He was a video man.
Yeah, we used to grab horrors and he told us never to watch the horrors and we used to do it anyway.
10:06 We didn't care because he couldn't tell what was missing.
We just used to pull the sheets out there at the bind, I remember and keep horrors.
But yeah, I watched this one by myself and I didn't know because there's no Google back then that Black Widow spiders literally could not mate with house spiders.
This could not happen, but I truly believe that it could.
10:22 And that scared the ever living shot at me.
And that's my fear now.
Is that that little house spider over there?
Maybe that's a venomous Black Widow baby.
Well, I'll tell you what, if you lived in Simon's house, that's what you would have.
You would be in a room with he would just bring you a spider every day and be like, Oh no.
I would have already have left.
10:38 I don't care how peace loving and fucking hippie dippie that place is and if how bad I needed it that spider come anywhere near me I would run barefoot away screaming.
So what was the other fears?
So we had Scarlet.
So actually just rollback.
So when Winona, who's the main girl first gets there, she sees a box in the garden and it's like not even big enough for like a dog really to get in.
11:01 And then it's Scarlett who's claustrophobic on one night.
And she's she can hear like she's woken up and then realized she left her water bottle outside.
So she goes outside and then she can hear like whimpering.
And then she realizes that Scarlett is locked in the box and the box is only big enough that she could probably just sit in with her knees up.
11:18 So she's proper tight, compact, and she's in there all night just crying.
She.
Can't even lay down.
His whole thing isn't it.
It's like exposure therapy.
So if you're scared of something, which I think may work with something, things that is extreme like leaving someone.
Use not by locking somebody in a room in the dark and making.
11:37 It though used to shut her in the cupboards maybe.
I know because it kind of felt like it was always small spaces.
He's very extreme.
And it's funny because if you look at my ex right, he was, he was not a good looking man, but somehow he snagged me.
He's had loads of women.
There is something about these manipulators that you don't.
11:55 You look at them and you want a puke in your mouth, but for some reason you can't help staring.
Yeah, I wouldn't say charismatic, especially like with your ex, but I think there's an intrigue because there's something different and I think it's an air of confidence.
Yes, he gets that's what it is being.
12:12 So this is true and people that can just argue the point better than what you can Even so you know you're safe.
I was arguing with you and even know I knew I was right.
I'm not saying as an example, but you know what I mean.
Like you're arguing with someone even though you're wrong.
12:27 I'm not a very good like some talk me around not in my head, but I can't I'll be like later on.
I'll be like I should have said that.
Sometimes do that too.
After I finished arguing with Mike, I'm like just said that that would have been a beauty.
12:44 That would have fucking pissed him off, but no I.
Get it, I get it.
I actually understand because like they don't talk Simon into being this like hot piece of love muffin, but everybody but he also comes across really a loop to like he's not interested, but then he'll give a sign that he's interested and then he'll pull it away again.
13:05 And that's a tactic manipulation.
It's like here's my love.
I don't.
Know I'm going to make you feel great.
I'm going to make you feel so.
Special take it away.
I'm just going to ignore you for like a week and you're like, I'm going.
To take it away and.
Then I'm going to give it a person becomes more attractive.
13:22 Fucking how weird.
It's abuse, it's abuse.
Of course it is.
So then let's go back to I can't remember who.
Oh, so Kristin's vice was drink, so she just wasn't allowed.
That's the one we were missing.
Kristin, I was like, she's basically an alcoholic really.
13:39 He gets her to stop drinking though, which is good.
But then he'll do things like he'll drink alcohol and then kiss her so she can taste the alcohol and make her work at the bar, make her go to a job in a bar so she's around alcohol all the time.
When they have the parties, she's always sober in the original mirror serves everyone the drinks.
13:57 So he's got a little fucking slave, but it's her.
What is it?
I want therapy, what is it?
Exposure therapy.
I keep going to say a version.
Maybe that's just how I feel about him on the version.
Oh no, that sounds right too.
You might be right.
14:14 No, I think it's exposure.
A version is the opposite, isn't it?
I don't know, I might have even made a fucking word.
Fuck, I don't even know that.
And then we have Winona, whose fear is blood.
Do you want to go through the blood talk?
It creeps me out.
You know, I don't like, she doesn't even like a little bit of blood.
14:33 And could you imagine if he had got her to the point where she was having to like, pour blood out of a pig or something?
Because that's kind of where I thought it was going to go.
Like, I, I don't mind blood, but I wouldn't want to fucking watch that.
This guy's a fucking window and hot.
OK.
14:48 And there was something I wanted to ask you.
I'm like, did you notice that every single person that he had pulled into his cult didn't come there because he invited them?
One of the goals had brought them in.
Did you notice that that he never did the fucking dirty work himself?
Hang on, No, this is something I wanted to ask you.
15:05 So obviously we see we're known to get there, but do we know how the other ones got there?
Because if we have, if we do, it's.
Very mildly.
It's mildly mentioned, I think, Like Maude had found.
Well, I think it was Maude first.
Yeah, I think.
15:21 Found I think Kristen because of the drinking and but everybody kind of invited somebody else in.
But he it's like he so Dakota went to the grief thing and that's where she went met Winona, but it's like he sent her somewhere where somebody is.
15:39 Might be vulnerable.
Of vulnerability, yes.
And I made that note too.
I spotted that as well.
Yeah, he's perfect.
Oh I didn't know you were alone.
What the fuck does that matter unless you're looking for a new victim?
That's quite calculated, isn't it?
Because it's not like very obvious.
15:55 Read the book.
It's just like, oh, come and live here.
I fucking hated it when her mum wanted to visit.
And like, obviously we're both parents.
So that would kill you, isn't it?
If you don't really know what your daughter's doing, if she's sort of, you know, you're a bit separated, maybe she's struggling a bit, and then you're like, I'm going to come and visit you.
16:11 And she's like, yeah.
And then she's like, oh, no, you're not allowed in this house.
Sorry.
I'll pay fucking rent.
I'll take her to my bedroom.
Fuck you.
And.
I'll take photos that make you look.
Yeah, this, these, these were the bits that annoying me.
But again, he's got such everyone and it's not because he's saying it is.
16:27 Other people go.
Did you ask Simon, though?
Are you allowed to do that because Simon?
Yes.
Oh, that's the other thing I kept making myself is every time maybe someone says I was like, oh, Simon Says.
Simon Says put up your heads.
I did the same thing.
16:42 Doing it made me fucking laugh.
I was like, I wonder if that was deliberate by the author to pick that name for that reason.
It doesn't do that on purpose.
If she did, well, I hope that she did because it did make me in a book that is quite sort of serious, even though there are some funny bits we took onto, that is like a little always an undertone of Simon Says this.
17:06 Did Simon say you could do that?
But he was he.
But I could understand how all of them ended up there.
I can understand how they all fell for this.
But my biggest thing was, do you think this was the first time he'd had this call?
Because we obviously don't know any of the parameters outside of what Scarlett is telling us in her interview.
17:24 And I thought that was a really clever way to tell a story, because she did like that documentary style interview with the narration, right?
And I thought that was really clever because we weren't really getting Scarlett's perspective any other way.
We only got it when she was doing the interview.
And I was like, do you believe what she has to say?
17:40 That was something I want to ask you, did you believe her as a character, what she was telling them on the documentary, do you know?
What?
Yeah, I did.
I didn't.
Really.
Yeah, Yeah, I did.
There wasn't a point where I fought to disregard it because I was reading it as if so I know what's happening.
17:56 You get a glimpse at the beginning that something catastrophic is going to happen at the end.
Yeah, she's obviously not in it because this is after it's all happened.
So I'm like, she's telling the story.
But yeah, I didn't even think about that.
She might lie.
I didn't think she was necessarily lying.
I was, as I was reading it, I'm like, she goes from like, oh, I kind of figured Simon was this monster.
18:15 And I'm like, you're already unreliable for me because you're, you stayed around for so fucking long, but you saw the riff like you stuck around anyway and was convincing other people to stick around.
I'm like, you're already making it seem like you were better than the rest of them.
So all right there, that set my teeth on edge that she seemed to think that oh, I kind of knew something was off.
18:34 What the fuck did you stick around?
Fucking lie to me, bitch.
You was.
You fell hook line and sinker.
And she was like explaining how these things happened to her and why she stayed, but it didn't feel quite authentic.
I think she really fell into the trap, I really do, but she didn't want anyone to know that in the interview.
18:53 And I'm like, you're just lying, bitch.
Maybe it felt the same way the rest of.
Them, though, she had fallen through all of it as well.
Yeah, but she didn't want to admit that.
And that came across to me.
I don't know.
I was just like, so Scarlett was like, I'm reliable narrator next to her name.
And the other thing, too, I actually really quite liked what was going on between her and Winona.
19:12 And she was calling her little spoon.
I thought that was so adorable.
It was the only nice thing in the whole book.
When we get to like the next house, so then basically, so we've got Simon who's helping them with self improvement.
So like we've Winona, it's blood.
19:27 So she goes for a session.
Kind of remember what happened in the first session.
This might been the 1st or the second, but the second he starts asking like really personal questions about sex and stuff and she's like, maybe he likes me because I like him.
And then that's all a bit weird.
19:44 No, didn't.
Someone ask her about the period thing too.
Like this.
The period blood.
Oh yeah, does that.
No, that doesn't bother me.
I thought that was really.
I don't know if you're freaked out by blood, that's shouldn't be less traffic, but.
But it's gushing out of you down there like.
20:04 I.
Was like, OK, weird.
Yeah, I'm I'm weird.
Though some of the stuff I was putting out the book probably no one else noticed.
You've got some, so they moved.
20:21 House, right?
And do you think that Simon did that on purpose to get that free house from Kristen?
Do you think that he pushed this narrative with the mirrors with the landlord because he didn't really want to be paying rent and he knew Kristen had a house?
Oh again, did not consider that.
I did pay rent.
20:39 Yeah, but what I imagined was Simon didn't even pay rent.
What was his job?
He didn't have a job.
He was there to help them.
So I don't know what Maud's job was.
Kristen worked at the bar.
Obviously Winona got there and she paid rent, Which from.
What, they all paid rent?
No, they all paid rent.
Maud had a Mehdi Pedi ban.
And he's doing fuck all.
20:57 And also there's always got the money.
I think Winona mentions later on it's like, oh that makes sense that she's so rich because she seems to always pay for everything.
Yeah, if you have a landlord and your rent that he's getting from the girls goes towards paying for the house, now you don't have to pay rent, but he's still charging them rent.
21:15 He's got even more money.
That's that was for me a factor in why he was doing this.
But.
When they moved, they didn't have jobs, so no, no one was paying rent.
It was just Kristen, but obviously it was free rent.
Well, they were trying to do the self-sustaining living thing, right?
And didn't he then they turn, he turned around and say that you can ride into town and get a job and they were having people come and stay there and I think he was charging them.
21:35 Didn't they have people come and say intense?
I mean, it definitely worked out better for him, for his like, but it definitely, I don't know if that was in his intention, but it definitely built the story of the cult becoming bigger because they could then have other people come.
So it's got 10 times worse.
Like I couldn't.
21:51 Especially like when they get there and they've got like no phone service.
Yes, that would freak me out.
Yeah, I'd be like, this is I'd be going into town to be like what network works here because I need something because they need.
A satellite phone bitch at 1:00.
Point they did have Internet because then he took it away and then took their phones away.
22:08 I don't know how that quite come about that then they did have Internet and then they didn't.
Yeah, because then someone.
Reached the other house.
Yeah, in the 2nd house.
No, it's in the 1st house maybe I miss.
Or maybe you're fucked up.
Don't know.
But yeah.
And wasn't it weird?
Oh, oh, oh.
So he's doing like one of her sessions.
22:25 Obviously he ends up shagging her as well.
I think that's blatantly obvious.
He's a.
Threesome, don't he?
I'm going back to the first house, so he's obviously shagging all of them.
But Joe, I wondered, was he shagging Maude because she was older and he was like in his 30s and they was like what, 20?
I don't know.
So was he shagging Maude as well?
22:42 Young.
Ones never came across like that.
It kind of felt like she was his second main command more than there to.
I did wonder when he so when he like calves, the lightning bolt in between her boobs, he's got it.
And then when she questions him about it because she finds out that Scarlett has it because they end up getting a little bit jiggy.
23:02 And then when she cracked him, he's like, don't worry, we've all got one.
And it's like, you fucking bastard.
So you've.
That's the whole point.
Know what though, as soon as he done that I was like that fucking bastard as tagged her.
I was gonna use the C word then.
I'm trying not to the couple of times I've wanted to see them today, so I apologize if it does eventually come out.
23:20 As.
Soon as you've done it, I was like, he's tagged her, but I didn't.
It didn't cross my mind that he'd done it to the others at that point because I thought I have blood.
That was like his other little bit of control over her, a bit of possession.
Like I've marked you, you're now scarred for life and I've done it.
23:37 But then you find out he's done it to all of them.
No, so fucked up.
It really was.
But you know what?
I just had this wonder now.
Like, he was a trained psychiatrist.
Psychologist, right?
Yeah, psychologist.
Now, why was he not practicing?
Do you think that there was something that happened untoward with a patient and that's why he wasn't actively practicing?
23:55 Because why the fuck would you start a cult?
Yeah, I don't know.
I didn't even like because the book obviously doesn't go into before we meet these characters and like their life if was before.
We just know that.
Well, he says he's a trained psychologist.
Is he?
Is he?
Yeah.
That's what I mean.
I was.
24:12 We just had a lot by the end.
I literally did not believe 1 mother fucking word out of that fucking freak's face.
He's just so like, how have you convinced that many people to follow you?
Like even if like, and obviously he's built them up like the initial like 5 if there was 5.
24:29 So he slowly built them up and convinced them so that they then convinced other people.
So now if you don't.
So there's four.
So there's four people, there's there's Simon and then four girls.
And then you turn up, the four girls are telling you all of this is true.
And this is what Simon Says.
So it doesn't always come directly from him.
24:45 So it's not because he's telling you, it's because every other female is telling you that that's true.
Do you know what I mean?
Sick man.
I've watched some Tik Toks and I don't know if these are true or like, but it's like there's a room and there's like 18 people that they just know they're going in for like a test, but it's like, I don't know, ACIA thing or something.
25:06 And all it is is a question.
It's like, what is this shape?
Now all of the other 17, they know what they're doing.
The one person just knows that I don't know if they're going for a job or if they're just in this experiment thing.
I don't know.
So they hold up a triangle and everyone says that's a circle, that's a circle, that's a circle, that's a circle.
25:22 And you hear that 17 times before it gets to you.
Is it a circle or is it a triangle now?
Because now you're the only person that's like, well, that was a triangle or whatever.
I just do, you know what I mean?
And it's like, if everyone keeps telling you a triangle circle, do you start believing that, oh, it's a circle, it's not a triangle anymore?
25:38 You know what?
This actually is true because what it is, it's not that they don't believe that it's not a triangle, it's that they think that these other people know something they don't and they don't want to not be the same.
And because I watched a video like that too, and they had a guy and he, he was literally every time the bell rang, he'd stand up, sit down and stand up.
25:58 You say?
That one and they have bringing more people in and they all started doing it like they told them to do this.
The original people left, so there's only new people and they all stand up with the people.
All doing it and one guy didn't do it and he was removed from he was like the fucking people doing and they removed it and and got him out of the way.
26:17 But no one told them to stand up and sit down when the bell rang.
Nobody, but because someone was already doing it.
Person and then one.
Manipulation.
Wise and then another person yeah, that's fucked up that without work.
Because you don't want to be seen as being the odd duck out.
26:32 Yeah, or people looking at you going, that's stupid.
You're not standing up.
Yeah.
And then you get booted out because hello, you're not following the curve.
Or what happens if you don't stand up?
Yeah.
What if you die?
What if somebody comes in because you're not doing this?
I mean, like us 2 right now, we'd be like, I wouldn't do that.
26:52 I'd be like, I just no, just want to be like, why do you keep doing that?
Like I would ask, I'd be like, like and they you think you would, but well, I think I would.
But you know, like if this keeps happening, they do the experiments a lot.
How they?
Truly don't know.
27:07 OK, I'd like to think that I wouldn't be that fucking stupid, but if everyone's doing it, I don't, maybe I would.
I think.
I think, I think I'm about 50%.
Maybe I might do it.
I might.
Have you ever seen Breaking Bad?
Yeah, years ago though.
OK, so it's this is one of the most memorable scenes I've I and I don't know why I keep remembering it, but Jesse is with Mike and they need to get into the the junkies house and Jesse is like, I can get us in watch this.
27:33 And he grabs a shovel and starts digging in the front fucking yard and the fucking junkies come outgoing.
What the fuck you doing?
He's like, I got to dig, man.
I just got to dig bro.
And they all come out with fucking shovels digging so that Mike is going house.
It's like you tell a junkies got this, this is just something you have to do.
They'll fucking do it.
And they did.
27:49 They're all out.
They're fucking digging in the right front yard.
So amazing.
Just made me fucking laugh.
But apparently that is very common with people.
It's like, oh, OK, well, if I have to do this, have to do this, it makes sense.
You know what you think you know and you think you know yourself.
28:05 I think until you're put in a situation, I don't think anyone can really know what they would fucking do until they are put to that test.
And you know what I might do now?
I might go down to the bus stop and just start standing up and sit down every time and see if I could get other motherfuckers to do it.
And if someone asks me, I'm just like, you got to do it and see if they'll do it.
28:23 How many of them I can convince.
I know this face, you do it right?
If I ask you to do something, you do it right.
I can't get my kids to do fuck all so I doubt it.
Maybe that's where we should start.
We should test the kids first and see what we can get people to do.
Or my kids won't do nothing.
28:39 If I tell Trini the sky is blue, she'll say fuck that, prove it.
If I say Boo Boo, there's birds up there, she'll go.
That's not fly, but that's MM in a nutshell.
If I I literally have to have graphs and data and like 20 years of taxes to prove anything to him.
28:59 Yeah, you don't believe shit man.
And I'm a conspiracy theorist so I don't believe a lot of things as well.
But if someone provides me with the correct evidence I would be more inclined.
No, not my kids.
Let's talk about the second house.
Yes, let's do that.
That's why shit gets real, hey?
29:16 So we get the 2nd house.
There's not enough bedrooms, so Simon picks is he picked Dakota to be in.
Hit.
But why?
Why do you think he picked her?
We don't know.
I don't know why he picked her at that time.
I can't remember what her fear is either.
I.
Don't remember her fear I.
29:32 Don't remember either but you know what I wondered if it's because she's the one that did the TikTok right.
She was on the good.
List.
That was her thing.
Oh, public speaking.
Yeah, OK.
Dumb.
Yeah, you got it, You got it.
What, so you think he already pre planned that she was going to tick tock the shit out of that?
Car no.
29:47 I think that he had decided because she was getting all this tick tock attention, so the house was getting attention which meant more people to come and be manipulated.
I think that's why he picked.
Up she's she could bring the people.
So do you think that was always his plan to get more people?
30:05 That was the plan.
Yeah, I do.
And it's funny because I wondered if there was another cult beforehand, because you know how like at the end, what he convinced them all to do now, was that the first time?
Because he didn't do it, did he?
Or was he in a cult and then I'm out of the cult and then was like, I can make people do what I want is I've just been through it and I followed so I'll make my own.
30:31 Maybe he oh, or maybe he was trying to get into one because you know, like his thing was like only women.
Maybe he wanted to get in one and it was just a one guy and maybe he just knew with 1 and was like, I could do that.
I like this.
I wouldn't help.
Them I never could consider that I didn't.
30:47 Snow.
Brilliant.
My magic wine juice you see this hell for me the.
Wine uses phenomenal.
Wow, that actually, you know what?
That would make a lot of sense.
But I did wonder if, like, this was maybe he'd been planning to build this for a while.
31:03 He wanted to see how it would go to start again because it felt like he threw them away really quick, you know what I mean?
Do you think he was just that he wanted everybody to unawive themselves, or do you think that he needed to?
You know, when you have test subjects of mice and you get what data you need, then you kill him because now you've got a new experiment you want to do.
31:22 You need new mice.
Do you think that's what he was up to?
Yeah, So skipping towards the end, obviously the house that they moved to is Kristen's dad, Kristen, like his dad, her dad's like Minted.
He's like a tech fucking millionaire CEO of whatever company.
I wonder if he needs a wife?
Yeah, yeah, I'm into tech.
31:38 Hi.
Don't.
Pick her, she's married.
Yeah, so he obviously turns up and is like, get everyone out.
You've got two weeks.
I love you, kid, but fucking sort your shit out.
You're drinking again now because apparently now she's woken.
31:54 So now she's allowed to drink even though she's an alcoholic.
But he's like, yeah, in the house.
So if it.
Yeah, I do wonder if Simon's like, right.
I need to clear everyone really quickly.
I can't take everyone.
Where am I going to get another house where I can start again?
I need to start again with just one and build up again.
And maybe that's why he does it.
32:10 Maybe him himself starts become like believing so much shit that he's talking.
Fear is love.
Fear is love.
Is that it?
On the chance fear is love.
Do you remember this?
I don't know, something like that, I don't.
Know I've I've I've returned it to kinder unlimited.
32:25 It is at the end.
It was saying it so often I was like fucking I cannot read this anymore.
I'm sure he gets everyone to chant all the time fear his love and he starts believing about all this transcending and bullshit.
I almost wonder whether the power got to him so much that he started to believe his own shit.
32:41 But then why didn't he kill himself if he actually believed that?
Because they all believed it enough to walk off that fucking Cliff.
So why didn't he?
Like what's it called?
He believes he's like Jesus and fucking who else is who?
What's the other ones?
I can't remember.
Like Charles Manson.
32:59 People that get killed for, like, their beliefs and then they die like a martyr and stuff.
Like, that's what he believed.
Yeah.
So maybe he was just like, my work is done with these guys, but my work is maybe not done.
But he was saying he's going back in to write like a suicide note.
Shit.
Maybe he was going to kill himself.
We don't actually know if he doesn't.
33:14 We only know that because of what Winona did to him.
Yeah, but I don't believe he was going in there to write the note.
He had to have have an excuse as to why he was so alive.
And I think that's what he chose because he forgot that she wasn't with them, that he cast her out.
He fucking forgot.
And if she hadn't have been there, I bet that smiley little fuck would have taken all that stuff and going to start it up with the knowledge that he now has gained from how to manipulate people and.
33:38 Start again.
And start again now what he should have done is found a way for Kristen to get that house signed over to them.
That's what he should have done.
That was a massive mistake.
And as soon as they moved in there and I'm like, this is not going to go well when the dad finds out because he owns it.
You're fucking disgusting.
I would just shoot you on site, your trespassers.
33:56 I know that it's happened where these cult people have managed to convince somebody to like steal the rights, gain the rights like and that now you can't get rid of them because they own it.
I'm like, you're not very fucking smart bro.
First thing I would have done was make sure that Dee was in my fucking name before I moved my bitches in.
34:13 Yeah, the whole time they moved there when I was like, Oh yeah, the house never gets used.
I'm like, all right, it might be a holiday home even.
It's maybe like one of like 10 that he's got, but at some point he's going to come back.
At some point, I think.
The whole thing, they'd only been there like a few months, wasn't it?
And she was like, oh, it's all right, because he's in like Japan or Asia or somewhere like he's not here and, and up.
34:31 And she was like, oh, you're back.
Because she was.
Stupid because he checks in on her and he couldn't get hold of her because she had no service.
Yeah, that just proves to me again that Simon is not as smart as he thinks he is.
No, no, clearly.
What a.
Dummy.
What a douche.
34:46 We hate Simon.
We're glad you know.
I it's funny because I didn't really.
I didn't hate him, hate him at first.
Like I could see how these women would have been drawn in, but you can see how as time goes on that the more you know about him.
I would have stabbed him right in the fucking face.
35:03 Oh yeah, I was so pleased with the end.
I feel I feel like when I got a really fucking bum ride in this book, like what happens after I.
Was going to ask you this because you read the book.
I read it on the Kindle and at the end it's like bonus chapter.
35:22 But sign up to my thing and I'll send you it.
I'm going to.
I don't like saying not good things, but it was pointless.
By the way, it was like at the end.
You want to know?
Yeah.
Do you want to know what happened to Widona Scarlett?
And there was.
35:38 The QR card I didn't.
If it was just a clever way for the author to get people to sign up to an e-mail thing, which it was.
Clever, Kim writes.
It was I want.
I want to read it, but to be honest, there wasn't anything worth reading.
Read it.
There wasn't anything in there that you wouldn't have expected.
35:55 There was no revelation.
There was nothing different.
Obviously, we know that at the end, she turns up at Scarlett's.
We already know that.
They just have a conversation basically at the end.
And then Winona realizes that home is her not.
Not Scarlett, not him, not anyone.
36:10 Like, she's her own home, basically.
But there's no revelation apart from, like, Scarlett doesn't.
She admits to Scarlett what she did, that she killed Simon and what she and how she left him.
Yeah.
And Scarlett doesn't hate her for it.
She's like, I would have done the same if I was in your.
Done the same.
36:26 I had it done the same.
I'm sorry, it would have.
It's right at the end, it does like like a news, like it's come out in the news and it's like a body has been found in the that whole thing that they go in.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cold.
It's not a hole.
Is it Like a bunker?
36:42 Just a hole in it.
Like an underground bunker?
Yeah, because they go down in that bunker and they have like little secret meetings at the end, which I just always pictured this little bunker, like just say ladder.
I like a little bit of space.
Like it wasn't like a bunker where there was like food and shit.
It was just just had some stairs that went into the ground.
36:58 It was really weird, like 6 feet under, 06 feet under.
6 feet under.
And that's where she leaves him.
Don't he to like to die and then put some bulb over the top of it.
But yeah, the end is just basically they found his body.
You know what it was?
I think because when I was, when I finished reading the book, I went and had a look on Goodreads and it seemed like people wanted to know, wanted it more finished.
37:21 And I think that's the only reason she did this, because it seemed like people felt like it was ambiguous.
Yes.
I'm dead.
Is he dead?
You know what I mean?
And that was a lot of questions people had.
So I think she was just tying up the loose ends that us readers were complaining about.
Yeah.
Do you think that come after then?
37:37 Like, she released the book and then there's other copies.
If we're like, people wanted this ending, I'll do it, but I'll do it on a bonus chapter.
I'm going to be clever.
I'm going to get people.
So yeah.
What?
It is clever because I just signed up, because now I'm going to get what I actually really enjoyed.
I thought.
I don't normally like books that work the way that this one did, the slow build up.
37:58 I like my thrillers to spank me in the ass and have my adrenaline through the fucking roof.
But this book was a slow creeper, and I actually kind of enjoyed that.
But I think it had to be because you had to understand how she got so drawn in by this cult.
Don't you call it a cult in the beginning as well?
38:14 This is where my mind is like, was it a cult because there was so few people?
You always imagine a cult with like loads of people.
Well, Charles Manson start off small.
He just had his little core group of bells.
There's only four or five of them in the beginning.
Oh, snaps.
Yeah, you know, on my up on my cult knowledge.
38:31 Well, I've, you know what?
I'm not either, but I did Chaos by Tom O'Neill.
He wrote the He wrote a book about Charles Manson and how, like, how did he end up doing all this stuff?
Because Charles Manson broke his bail, his probation, like, 16 different times.
38:49 And each time they let him go.
He should have been back in jail.
But somehow, somehow he was still out on the streets to commit these crimes.
And Tom O'Neill wanted to know what happened.
So he did a book.
And he's not a conspiracy theorist.
And he is like, I think that he worked for the Ciai do.
And I did an episode on this book, and Tom O'Neill tagged me in it, posted to his book page and tagged it.
39:10 Yeah, Well, that was really exciting.
But no one's read this fucking book anyway.
But I was really intrigued because.
Not like Charles Manson.
What?
He had his goals, right?
And he went and they did the hell of skeletal murders where they went and killed that Sharon Tate.
She was 8 months pregnant guy man Poloski's wife and he's a fucking pedophile.
39:29 No, I digress.
Cults often do start small, but I another thing that I had in my mind when I was reading this was do you think he set out to start a cult or do you think that's just how it ended up?
Do you think that he was setting out to find goals to abuse and abuse and treat like crap, or do you think that he found a couple of girls and they were so easy to manipulate that he got high on that and wanted to build?
39:55 Off of that, that's what I think.
I don't.
I don't know if the intention was there to make it big, I think.
It started, it was happening and he was like, and then he'd send them out and be like, well, this is this size house and this is big enough for us and this is OK, We've all got bedrooms.
40:11 Like they feel like they've got space, blah, blah, blah.
I don't know if he then instigated, like you said, like the move, but yeah, I don't know if he I don't, I don't know, like I'm a good person.
I wouldn't do that.
So I don't know.
No, like you can't get in the mind of someone who turns out to be like that.
40:28 It's like, was he what happened in his childhood?
Why is he so fucked up that he would do this to people?
Yeah, well, like I said, I don't know if it's because he was, he didn't set out for this to happen, that he was getting drunk off the power and he just escalated.
But the reason I said that about the house was because they had all the mirrors in the house, but when they moved to Kristen's house, they didn't put the mirrors back up.
40:48 Why?
If it was, if it was, that's a really up, they didn't put them back up.
They left them.
They left all those mirrors at that house.
Now if it was so fucking important for it to be a mirror house, wouldn't you take the mirrors and put them up at the new house as that's the reason why you got a big tip because you refuse to take them down?
So didn't they leave the house in like a mess with glasses?
41:06 They smashed all the glasses.
But then why wouldn't he?
Then even if you smashed them glasses, why wouldn't you start putting mirrors on the new house?
Oh yeah.
I wonder what this?
That's my point.
I wondered if he did it on purpose.
Or is this just simple but like the mirror house, like look at yourself because it was like self improvement?
41:24 Like, look, but then you'd have the mirrors facing in where it wasn't bothering anybody because the reason that the landlord got called was they had the mirrors facing out.
Yeah.
And it was reflecting on the road and it was dangerous.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, because that was, I was like, it would be a different matter if he'd gone to his other house and put the mirrors up.
41:40 Then I would have said, OK, he moved because he had a point and that's why he didn't take the mirrors down.
But I'm like, he didn't put them back up.
He didn't take them.
He left them there because someone mentions that they that landlord to do with all those mirrors and it was a mess and I'm like, so if it was that important, why would you do it again?
41:55 Why didn't you just take the fucking mirrors down then, you fucking bozo?
Such a good point.
Maybe like, like you said, Eva, he was happy that the landlord was moaning that it was forced Kristen to be like, I've got a house.
Exactly.
Maybe that's the point and.
I think that was exactly the point.
42:14 I need people to hear what I think, to know whether or not I was on the right track.
It's really hot.
These books are.
I find these books are ambiguous.
They let you think what you want to think.
Gardner did this phenomenal job where she took a book and my what I got from it is even different to what you got from it because she made it so that I could believe and put my belief system into what I'm reading.
42:38 And you did the same thing because you have never had to.
You've never been indoctrinated into the cult of any man like as you.
You have a beautiful family.
You have your kids, you have your mom, you have your dad.
You've always felt very secure.
I didn't always feel that way growing up.
42:54 I didn't like the whole thing with my mom and my my stepdad and then, you know, all the stuff my mom was going through.
I never really felt like my mom always had my back.
I think that's why I was so vulnerable.
Whereas Someone Like You, I think you would stab a motherfucker.
He even attempted anything.
43:11 I think he would have been like, fuck you.
Are you fucking balls down your throat bitch.
And I don't think it's because you're necessarily like a violent person, but I just, I think that you have the poor belief system that you have people standing right behind you that will fucking bring the, the, you know, they'll bury the body.
Also, like a person that believes that everyone means well and everyone thinks like I think, and that's not always the case.
43:32 So I'll probably give people the benefit of the doubt sometimes.
As in, yeah, no, I'm and I'm probably a bit of a people pleaser and that's always nature.
Don't be a people pleaser.
It's not good.
No, that's true.
You know what?
That's true?
You are.
You're a big sweetie pie, You really are.
43:48 And I could see how maybe you might get swept at the start.
I don't think it would travel much further for you.
These women were all vulnerable and they had nobody.
Whereas you have people.
Yeah.
I mean.
Yeah, OK.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I think that's how I ended up with my ex was because I felt he loved Bobby.
44:06 Hey, did you know that on our second date he took me into town and bought me trainers and clothes and makeup, a bag?
He spent like £400 on me on a second date.
What do you think that does to a kid?
Right teenager.
Because how old?
And he was very young.
I was, yeah, I was still in high school.
44:21 I was still in Penn Valley.
I was still in school.
He was a fucking 20.
What 3-4 year old man with a job in a house?
Didn't know you were still in school.
Shit.
My memory, Like I said, I say to you before we start this podcast, every time I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to remember everything in the book because my memory is shot at the minute and I didn't.
44:38 Yeah.
But you know what?
You remember things that I didn't and I wrote fucking notes.
So really your memory is not that bad.
Yeah, I didn't make notes this time.
Do you know why?
Because I started reading it.
Especially like at the beginning, I was like I said at the beginning of this protocols, it wasn't that I didn't like it, but I saw your rating and I know you really rated it and I was like, it's it's good, it's OK.
44:57 It's still 4 starred.
It can't remember.
I was going with this now my memory funny enough.
That's fucking hilarious.
You're like, I had a point, hang on.
And I didn't even interrupt.
You.
I actually don't know where I was going with that.
Carry on.
What are we talking about?
Like you said about your memory and you're reading the book and you started out and you really liked it and you weren't writing notes because?
45:18 Oh, yeah.
So I wasn't writing notes.
Oh, we haven't spoke about this.
I'm glad that we've gone back to this.
So I wasn't writing notes.
And I said to you from the beginning, I was like, I've already read like nearly 20%.
I haven't written any notes.
I'm just going to wing it because I feel like I I almost like documented by chapter and it actually takes me so much longer to get through the book.
45:36 And I was really enjoying it.
I was not gonna.
And then one night I went to bed and I was reading it.
He's making me laugh now.
And it's when she first goes to the house, right?
And first night that they start drinking, they play truth yes.
So he just immediately this this you realize after but every time someone new comes to the house, he basically pays truth and he just picks a new persons like tell us your dark, deepest, darkest fears, because he wants to know what his hold is on that person clearly Exactly.
46:04 And so she does her.
She spills her guts and then afterwards he like comes and hugs her and he starts like humming or something.
And then all of a sudden they all gather around and start like just like start hugging her and they all start like humming like a beehive.
46:20 And I was fucking piercing myself and I was like, I've gotta write this down in case I forget.
Can you?
See that?
He starts humming, they all start humming, and she probably started humming.
She did, she did.
She did.
I think she did.
Nobody told her to harm, no one explained why she was humming.
46:36 But she just did it because that's what the collective does.
And.
It's like the vibration.
I think if you held someone and did that, even though you'd be weird at first, it's like, you know, if you're in the wound, soothing, like the way.
Yeah, it's a soothing thing.
But then they all start gathering around and humming at her like a bee, and it was just really cracking me up.
46:55 And that's when.
And that was it.
When you your kids were little, I bet you went right.
Like, yeah, yeah.
Because it's vibrational.
I did, but it was the whole thing about I'm like the fact that she just joined in because no one told her to.
47:11 No one explained it, but she just did it because everyone else was doing it and she didn't want to look like a weirdo.
And I think that's what they play here is because you don't want to look like the odd duck out.
You do things that you wouldn't normally do because you don't want to be left.
Yeah, I like Scarlett leaves like the second house.
47:31 She's like, I can see what's happening now.
It's dumb shit, come with me.
And she's like, no, like this is my family, blah, blah, blah.
So we're knowing the stays.
And then from that point on, you get little flashes of Scarlett's words coming back to her.
Like she can see the red flags and then she hears Scarlett's words or maybe hears her mum saying it's a cognition.
47:48 She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not true.
I wouldn't.
Everything's great.
I love my family.
I love being here.
And she and this is probably what a lot of people go through.
You see the red flags, but then you So no, no, no, that can't be true.
And then you put yourself back in it and you start defending it.
And then you if you can't get out of it.
48:04 No, because by the time it's too late, it's too late.
Like I don't want to keep bringing up I won't say his fucking name, cunt face.
And I said the C word, so there you go, cunt face.
He literally made it so that, like, he was slowly Wheeling all the people out of my life.
48:21 Like he wanted you gone because you had too much sway over me.
Wanted my mom gone.
He wanted everyone gone.
And then when he realized that I wouldn't cut you guys off, he moved us to Canada.
Yeah.
And then when we were here, he told me that if I left him, he would take the kids and he would make sure that I'd kill myself.
48:38 So I stuck around for a whole extra year.
Fucked after he got chlamydia.
Yeah, I'm fucking out in your little shit.
He got chlamydia, and then they had the audacity to tell me I gave it to him.
I'd only ever slept with him, but he was sleeping with a nurse at the hospital.
But somehow, somehow when I was on that fucking acreage, someone come down gave me chlamydia.
48:57 I gave it to him, but I didn't have it.
Yeah, I went and got tested.
So I had to go have a Pap test and they gave me a test and I didn't have it.
It's funny though.
Yeah, but he tried to make me believe it was my fault, and I still stayed.
Jack.
That's how manipulation works.
You honestly believe you can't survive without them?
49:14 Yeah, I guess.
What?
Bitch, I don't have podcast.
I got books.
I've got a man who does as he's told now.
And we're still close, so we're still.
Close to fuck you didn't.
Work.
You didn't do that.
I get it.
This, I guess this book made me understand that I am not this unique person who got Yeah, you know, because you know what a lot of us have and a lot of us do, and maybe it's not in a cult setting, but it's definitely in some kind of like even a workplace.
49:41 It's gonna happen in your fucking workplace, man.
All of a sudden you're saying and doing things you wouldn't normally do because you don't want to get out of the clique.
You treat someone really poorly because everyone else does, because you don't want to be the person they're like, why?
And I'm like, you know what?
49:57 This spans this like it's real, it's war, it's honest.
I get it.
It's sick.
Like the author, you're scary.
Scary lady.
I'd love to know.
You do.
You know what?
No spoke about it and we're like sorry my mom and dad have just walked in so sorry if you can Yeah now we're.
50:15 Really.
Like now we spoke about it more.
I'm like, this is better than what I I feel like I get to the end of the book and then I kind of forget the beginning sometimes.
But yes, my Raspberry lemonade.
Sorry, they asked it.
50:31 Can we?
I'm actually filming.
You're not.
Cutting none of this.
Welcome to our family, we're all nuts.
Yeah.
No, we're we're running a bit like we're nearly done.
You're nearly.
Done.
We're just wrapping up.
Yeah.
I just, yeah, I want to finish on a good one because actually I feel like I started it saying I do think obviously it resonated a little bit more with you, but I did, I did actually enjoy it more than what I thought because going back over it, I'm not actually maybe sometimes it just takes like.
51:00 A minute.
Picking it apart with someone to be like that was actually really good like it.
Was I'm actually.
Oh starry.
I'm not like it was a two, I just full starred it.
I don't know like that that that the last book that we did had to say Christmas.
I love the fuck out of that book.
51:16 And then when we talked about it, I loved it even fucking harder.
And then I talked to my friend Jason.
I'm like, it's on KU.
And she read it.
She was like, it was good.
I'm like.
I feel like I remember that one quite well as well because we spoke about it so much.
And it's nice to remember a book.
51:32 Someone says, oh, if you read this book and you go, yeah, I have, but I actually don't remember.
Oh.
Shit.
OK, so my friend JC wants to she wants to do a podcast episode, right?
So we're going to do The Seven Husbands of Evan on Hugo.
And I've read it and it's funny because I had a coffee, borrowed it from her, and I read it in the bathtub and I was eating spaghetti and I got spaghetti splashes in it.
51:51 OK, so I know, right?
And then Mike's like, you can't give her that book back.
So I replaced it.
She still doesn't know.
She probably will now she's probably watching this.
I gave her a brand new book because I'm like, fuck, we've got spaghetti splashes in it.
Well, we're just about to start it.
And that's all I can remember of the book is that I got it covered in spaghetti sauce.
52:07 Can I just say you've you've kind of I've said it, but skirt over the fact that you're in the bath eating spaghetti.
That is the weirdest.
I was laying down.
I had a point.
I have a spaghetti and I was reading because sometimes I need a break away from the kids and a bath is the only place where they don't bug me.
52:25 And I was like this.
I was reading.
I was like drinking.
Wine I get people like maybe having a glass of water there.
I don't understand people eating in the bath, that's fucking weird.
I just, I needed, I had Charlene and Serenity.
52:41 They were little and they were being I couldn't, I couldn't just I couldn't get a break for a minute so much.
So why didn't you go for a bath?
So I just took my spaghetti with me.
I couldn't waited, but I didn't.
And I laid in the bathtub.
I had it on my chest.
I was reading my book and I was like, I splashed on the pages.
52:57 So I had to buy her a new copy.
Mike bought her a new copy.
But that's all I remember of the book.
I'm like, Mike was like, what's the book about?
I'm like, well, she had 7 husbands.
He was like, well, I got that from the fucking title.
I'm like, you had to replace the because I've got spaghetti sauce in it.
It was like, Oh yeah, I remember so funny.
And that was.
53:13 It are you looking forward to it though?
I am really looking forward to it.
We're going to.
Yeah, we're going to.
I have ideas for that too.
I bought myself a pole necklace, like a fake 1A real one, but I'm going to kind of like wear the red lipstick and on my pocket.
But there was one thing I did want to say.
53:31 There's a couple of books that people might enjoy if you enjoyed the book that we've just read.
And that was the Goals by Emma Klein.
It's next on my agenda because it's also a cult book.
And Gillian Flynn I know I hated.
Yeah, I know I hated Gone Girl, but Sharp Objects was really fucking good and.
53:48 That's that.
I've literally put that on my new bookshelf that my girls built for me the other week.
I've got somebody was like, you guys never give us wrecks on the books you just read.
I did it this.
Time someone said we do a whole site where we recommend so many books every other.
54:05 What she wanted was she was like, you never give me breaks on other books.
I can read that.
I like it, but this time we did it.
There you go, Jasmine, you are.
Oh, that's a good thing, yeah.
Cool, I went a little diving.
I found a couple.
Yeah, right.
I don't know what we're reading next.
Did you have any ideas or should we put that on socials?
54:22 I think we should tease with maybe we'll have like two or three choices and well, maybe we'll put on our socials and maybe let them.
Andrew, if we get people to pick, yeah, I'm not back.
And Pole, yeah, we should do that, but we'll pick books on KU so that people can follow along if they have a subscription.
54:38 Right, yeah, if you do like 3 books and then people can pick and we'll read it and then we'll talk about it and yeah, we'll put it shows.
Yeah, right.
Find us.
Tell them where to find us.
You can find us on our social medias.
We have an Instagram and that is at Betty and Bonnie book slayers.
We have Facebook Betty and Bonnie book slayers.
54:54 We have TikTok Betty and Bonnie.
We have our book merch store.
Do not forget to go shop there.
Betty and Bonnie book slayers dot square dot sight.
If you want to send us any POP card requests, show guest hostingbooksubmissionsthatsbettyandbonniebookssays@gmail.com Woo.
55:12 This was fun.
Our website, the episodes are live on the website as well.
Benny, Benny.
I'll keep saying Benny and Botty.
Why do I keep doing that?
It's not Benny.
And botty.
Dot com you can find all our socials there and you can find all our episodes there too.
We hope that you have the reading week you deserve.
55:28 Guys.
I will catch you in two weeks.
Freezing.
Take care.

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The Mirror House Girls - Book Deep Dive (Spoilers) | Cult Maniupulation

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